Gas Meter Mix Up

hurstglen

Hi
I own a flat in a block of 8 flats and the property has been tenanted since I bought it 6 years ago. I recently had a gas leak and had to call out Southern Gas Networks to turn off the gas supply. (all 8 meters are directly outside the flats and not labelled) The meter that I had been informed was mine was successfully turned off and my private gas engineer started to fix the internal leak. We then discovered that the gas supply was still turned on. !!:eek:
Through a process of elimination and additional time and costs the correct meter was located.:T My engineer repaired the leak and turned the gas back on. :TIt was at this point we realised the meter was not working correctly (possibly due to it being full of water!!) He could not then issue me my Landlord Gas Safety Certificate until the meter had been repaired. :mad:
I spend hours going round and round in circles calling Southern Gas, EDF and SSE (Independent Pipeline Supplier who initially installed the meter) to try to get to the bottom of this. I have been informed that Persimmon Homes (who built the development) gave the incorrect meter serial numbers to SSE when the flats were built. It would appear that I am not alone in this mess as another resident in the same block has never received a gas bill.!!:mad: I immediately presumed that I have been paying his gas bill....well no, it would appear that the meter I have been paying is for another flat. So that's at least 3 gas meters mixed up.

I know have the following questions / issues.....:mad:
1) My tenants and myself have been receiving bills and paying gas for a meter that has not been supply gas to my flat. So am I entitled to a refund for the payments made for the last 6 years? :j(I now know whose flat this meter belongs too, as they called the Gas Board stating their gas had been turned off. Have they been paying a gas bill?)
2) Who is responsible for paying for the gas usage for the correct meter? _pale_
3) SSE, Southern Gas Networks and EDF do not have the meter serial number listed- so I do not know who is supplying gas to the meter or my flat.:o
4) Who is responsible for replacing the meter as I do not know who owns it.:o
5) I know have an outstanding Gas Engineers bills for the additional time it took to locate the correct gas meter. Who is responsible for paying this?:(
6) Can I claim any compensation for my time having to get this sorted, time off work etc.?
7) I have tenants in my property without a valid gas safety certificate. What are the implications for me? :eek:
8) Once the meter is replaced and my gas engineer returned to issue me with a new gas safety certificate- can I claim back the costs associated with his additional time ? Who can I claim against?
9) Who is responsible for conducting a full investigation in to how this mix up occurred and paying me compensation?:mad:

Any help much appreciated !!

dogshome

Errors in meter allocations in blocks of flats are quite common,and though blame falls on the buildings developers/subcontractors it's highly unlikely that it could be pursued after 16 years+

As the various Utility suppliers can only go on what they have been told, they are not at fault, but are responsible for sorting out the meter mix-ups now

I must admit that I feel some chagrin about your post ranting on about who compensates you, when you have at least 2 tenants and possibly more, who are paying someone elses bill.

The right thing to do is issue a notice to all your tenants that this situation has occured and organise 'Meter check'
meeting - Each tenants bill shows the meter number the supplier believes to be theirs, a Gas On/Gas Off test on each one to see if that flat still has gas will by process of elimination fix which meter supplies each flat.

With this established it's down to each tenant to deal with whoever their paticlar supplier is, which is process that takes some time.

hurstglen

thanks for you reply.
I only own one flat not the whole block.
The flat has been tenanted for 6 years with different tenants over the years.
As you can appreciate it is not my responsibility to get this sorted for everyone else. I just want my situation sorted.

dogshome

Apologies for my mis-read of your post, but establishing which flat who's Gas you have been billed for helps you resolve your own problem - Go on, drop note through the other 4 doors

hurstglen

as stated in point 1. I know whose gas I have been paying for -flat 1 !!

Cardew

As said before it happens quite a bit in flats(and with water meters)

What makes you think you will get a rebate/or compensation? you could owe money!!

If you don't know who supplies gas to your flat, who have you been paying? It is probably the same firm as supplies electricity.

Bear in mind it is not the gas company's fault - they can only go on what they are told by the developer. Also the other party(s) may have changed gas supplier.

Your numbered list of questions indicate you feel the gas company are liable to 'pick up the tab' to sort out this mess and pay you compensation.

It will be impossible to sort everything out, so I would wait and see what action the gas company(s) intend to take on this matter.

I suspect they will 'draw a line' under previous events and start charging you from your present meter reading. If you are unhappy with that, and can quantify your loss etc, then sue Persimmon.

Man_Overboard_2

If your tenants have been responsible for their own bills, then you will not have lost money during their tenancies.

It is possible that the flat 1 has used less energy than you or your tenants, and therefore you and/or yours tenants have benefited from the !!!!-up.

It should be relatively staightforward, albeit extremely slow, to get the crossed meters sorted out, and, as stated in another reply, there is a good chance that the suppliers will write off their potential losses.

Your biggest problem may be the absence of a gas safety certificate, so I suggest keeping a careful log of everything. When I have my gas safety certificate done, the guy always does a meter check as well, so I'm not clear how your previous certificates have failed to show up the error.

TIMMY85

The most likely resolution would involve the suppliers correcting their active accounts, ie. the current occupiers.

EG - Your tenants believe they have been supplied by EDF and paying by DD. They have actually been supplied by SSE. The two suppliers correct their meter records and the tenants receive a full refund from EDF. They then receive a bill from SSE for the gas they have used. This may be for a higher or lower amount than billed by EDF but should only be for the last 12 months (from the point the crossed meter issue was identified) as back billing should apply. EDF would then send a bill for whoever should have paid for the gas on the other meter.

The reason I say suppliers are likely to only deal with the current accounts rather than historical occupants is to keep what can be complex as simple as possible. There may have been changes of supplier and, suppliers would not want to be chasing people to refund only for another company to then issue a historical bill.

I suspect that as your property is currently tenanted and you are not paying the bills that you will not be refunded for any payments you have made as, presumably you were happy with the bills received in between tenancies.

I would have thought that SGN came back out when the correct meter was identified as you were dealing with a gas escape and the wrong supply had been turned off. I am also suprised to hear that the meter has not been replaced. If you report a gas emergency and they establish the meter is faulty they usually replace on the spot and update the supplier (they would not be aware of crossed meter issues). You say that meter is full of water, that is not normal (obviously) and, as I am not a gas safe engineer, if you spoke to me I would report this as a potential emergency as it is better to be safe than sorry with gas (http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Gas/Safety/)

If it is not an emergecny I would suggest that whoever 'thinks' they are supplier can arrange to replace the damaged meter and then sort all the crossed meters out after that.

With regards to compensating you for the costs following repairs following the leak I am afraid that (a goodwill gesture notwithstanding) nobody will. As the property owner you are responsible (unless insured) for all gas pipes after the meter.

With regards to your time...the property has tenants, they need to pay the bills...I would let them sort it out...if you do do it yourself (make sure the correct supplier knows who the tenants are) then again (goodwill not withstanding) you will not get compensated for your time. As previous posters have said, none of the suppliers are at fault and will have relied on the information they have been given. It is unfortunate that it takes things like an erroneous transfer, very high bills or a gas escape to identify these kind of issues as they are not visually identifiable by the occupier and it cannot be idenitified by systems.

Cardew

Man_Overboard wrote: »

Your biggest problem may be the absence of a gas safety certificate, so I suggest keeping a careful log of everything. When I have my gas safety certificate done, the guy always does a meter check as well, so I'm not clear how your previous certificates have failed to show up the error.

Not clear how a meter check would show up the error.

The gas account, and bills, would have the same MPRN number as the meter.

Even if the gas fitter was diligent enough to check the meter, and compare MPRN numbers, how would he find out the problem?

Or have I missed something?

Man_Overboard_2

Cardew wrote: »

Not clear how a meter check would show up the error.

The gas account, and bills, would have the same MPRN number as the meter.

Even if the gas fitter was diligent enough to check the meter, and compare MPRN numbers, how would he find out the problem?

Or have I missed something?

Perhaps naively, I have always assumed that the meter check consisted of something more than just looking at it in order to confirm it's physical presence. I guess I took it for granted that the check included some kind of test to see that the meter was accurately recording the flow of gas into my boiler, and that there were no leaks etc. I would have presumed that if the engineer was unknowingly testing the meter which serves my next door neighbour's boiler, he would get an anomalous result.

Hey-ho - life is never simple

Cardew

It is a safety check; they look for leaks and potentially unsafe equipment.