Help with a rat

Notsosharp

Hi,

I know it was a really stupid thing to do but I got a rat off a pets page on facebook.

The owner told me he was not very friendly but she didn't tell me just how unfriendly he was! You risk your fingers every time you put your hands even on the cage never mind in it!

I have owned rats in the past but none of them have been this difficult to handle! It's obvious he hasn't been well socialised and he's just been in a cage on his own for about a year the previous owner told me.

I've been starting with trust training and he will take food from my hand but he still goes to bite even when we've had him out on the bed. We've just been sat on the bed trying to get him to trust him, not doing anything to him except talking but he just hides, he's not even interested in us except to try and bite! We always wash our hands before handling him so they don't smell of food but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

I think part of his problem is that he's been handed food through the bars of his cage and so will take a chance on anything stuck through the bars of his cage including fingers and so I don't give him any treats through the bars, he has to come to the open door to get them.

I am and will still keep trying with him but I was just curious if I got him a friend (male obviously) would it ease his issues or would I be making more work for myself? If I did get him a cage mate how would I go about mixing the two?

I'd appreciate any help, I really want to try with him and so does my DD but he is very difficult to handle and my DD refuses even to be near him at the moment which is upsetting as she has wanted a pet rat for a while now (and no he wasn't got exclusively for her, I knew I'd end up doing most of the work, I've missed having a pet rat, I think they make brilliant pets when handled properly and would recommend them over rabbits and hamsters any time!)
Is there a possibility he may be blind as he doesn't seem always to be aware or where we or the food is around his cage?

krlyr

Male rats can be prone to hormonal aggression and in my experience, if that is the case, neutering is essential - handling can help but there's always this underlying aggression until the hormones are removed. May be worth bearing in mind if he's that extreme.

If it is hormonal aggression he is suffering from, introducing a buddy may not be possible at the moment either. I have had several male rats with hormonal aggression and despite trying many introductions, none could be paired up with other rats, and those already in groups often had to be removed until neutered. Once they'd had the snip, every single one of them could be integrated into a group/back with their group - including two very severely aggressive boys I had (who I managed to introduce to each other, which was a feat in itself, and then into a mixed group of other neutered boys and girls).
The most extreme case I had was a boy who would literally viciously attack anything - put a toy in his cage, he'd attack it. I could only remove him from the cage by tempting him into his igloo (I bought one with a floor on purpose) and lifting that out. Even outside of the cage, he would nip quite hard. Generally, he was left to his own devices but once he lost enough weight to be put through the op, I had him neutered and it really, really helped. He still was prone to a teeny bit of nipping - I think it had just become a learnt behaviour, but he never drew blood, and he became really good buddies with one of the girly rats in the group which was lovely to see. And I could actually brave picking him up from inside the cage too!

Notsosharp

I don't think it's aggression, he won't go out of his way to attack me; just if the opportunity arises. Sometimes he'll just give my fingers a sniff, others he will go to bite but I can read the signs now so generally avoid it.

I think it's mainly fear because he hasn't been handled much, he'd rather run away and this is what he does when we put him on the bed; he won't go out of his way to attack. Not like that rat you described, he sounded like a horror :eek:. I did read that some rats are just born aggressive through a genetic fault, maybe he was one of those?


Also, is it possible he's blind/can't see very well? He often will come up to the bars of the cage but it's like he can't see us because he doesn't always come to the right side of the cage and it takes him a while to realise where the treats are. Is it possible he's aggressive because he can't see very well and is reacting out of fear?

I'm really not sure it's worth getting him neutered; he's 18 months old which is fairly old in ratty terms! Perhaps he'll just have to get used to being an only child!

krlyr

If he's in good health then 18 months isn't too old - though I'd want a good, experienced surgeon to do the op (I had the same surgeon do all the neuters for my rats).
I had another bitey male who's behaviour was very much fear-based and neutering helped him greatly too. Sounds a bit more similar to your guy - sometimes would be fine to put your hands near, other times he would just bite. He was very nervous about handling, you moving stuff around in his cage etc. - quite a jumpy personality. I've seen hormonal aggression affect males in a sliding scale - from boys who are just a bit grumpier and more likely to take offense to a cuddle or eating from the same food bowl (managable, not life-threatening, but still worth neutering to make for a more relaxed life for all the rats in the group), to this nervous aggression (neutering him definately benefited him a lot more than me, I could avoid bites because they almost always had a reason, but it stopped him being on edge 24/7) to Mr Extreme mentioned before (his was definately hormonal aggression though as he improved so much with the neutering - though maybe a teeny bit caused by a health condition too, poor boy was left with an untreated ear infection before I got him and left with a permanent slight headtilt). Neutering helped in all cases, and I've never lost a boy in surgery either - biggest complication was one boy who had a bit of bruising and a mild hematoma but otherwise they tend to bounce back from it well and the hormones dissipate in a matter of weeks.

Rats have quite poor eyesight anyway but they rely on their other senses more than vision. This website pictures what is believed to be the quality of a rat's site - nothing near as defined as ours
http://www.ratbehavior.org/RatVision.htm

I've had rats with poorer than usual vision that made them a little more likely to bite your finger instead of the bit of toast you were offering, or a tiny bit more likely to nip if you snuck up on them, but generally they managed to manouvre the cage, interact with other rats, etc. just fine so I don't think sight plays a huge role in behaviour.

What kind of instances is he likely to bite you? Just to try to give a clearer picture of his behaviour.

Fosterdog

I've had a lot of rats over the years and socialising aggressive rescues was my speciality.

If he's not going out of his way to attack then you are right it's probably not hormonal and more to do with eyesight and lack of handling.

To get him used to being handled the easiest thing I found was to strip the cage bare. If he has places to hide and toys to defend/protect he is more likely to bite. Just for now take everything out and just leave him with some bedding and his food/water. All hammocks, igloos, toys etc. should be taken out.

Feed him away from the door so he doesn't associate the doorway with snatching for food/treats.

Always talk to him when you are around the cage, this will get him more used to you being around and will give him a better awareness of where you are so he will be less likely to bite out of fear or surprise.

Get him out for handling as often as possible but in short bursts so he doesn't get too overwhelmed and will soon learn that he quickly get's to go back to the comfort of his cage.

Put a cut up old t-shirt or something else of yours in his bed area and under his food bowl, he will get more used to your smell. Wear a hoodie when handling him and let him hide away in the pouch, it will be nice and warm and dark for him but will help him feel more secure while getting used to you.

More than anything he needs time to adjust and get used to you, I wouldn't get him neutered just yet, he needs more time to settle before an op. I've had more than a hundred rescue rats over the last ten years and around half of them came to me unhandleable, all but one got better without the need for surgery. Some took as little as a week to learn to trust and others it was a longer more drawn out process but they all got there in the end.

The only one I ever had who needed to be neutered died two hours after the op, it's not something I agreed to lightly but he was so aggressive towards people and rats and was in a constant state of being over-alert it was causing him other problems. He certainly had hormonal problems and was the smelliest buck I've known and had so much grease in his fur from his hormones he looked constantly wet. The vet did think there was also a neurological problem and probably what made the hormone problem worse and what stopped him recovering from the op.

If you do it this way you can start adding things back to his cage as he trusts more as he is less likely to see you as a threat and wont guard his territory as much.

Notsosharp

Thank you both for your advice, it's been helpful.

I will think about getting him neutered but I'm not sure how good my vet is with small furries, I had a rabbit spayed with them; she wasn't "right" for weeks after so it's probably not something I'm going to do unless I absolutely have to.

He's just bitten me again but to be fair I should have read the signals, he was grinding his teeth and getting a bit jumpy so I think it is stress related/when he feels threatened.

I've changed him today because he does get quite smelly but I will remove everything from the cage tomorrow and see if that helps.

He came with like a small tug type toy (like you get for dogs but tiny) I'll carry that round with me tomorrow and put it in his cage tomorrow night. I don't really have any t-shirts I'd be willing to cut up although I guess I could sacrifice a pillow case!

I can't pick him up at the moment he squeals like I'm killing him when I try so I think I'm going to have to give him a couple more weeks before I try the hoody thing but I will give it a go (as soon as I find my one and only hoody lol).

Is it still OK to keep rats on sawdust? I used to keep all mine on sawdust (and feed them chocolate which I've learnt now is a big no no) and they all lived to ripe old ages. However I've read that sawdust isn't really suitable for them so what other alternatives are there?

Would he be OK on vet bed?

meritaten

I hate to say this - but the source for this rat is hardly reputable. perhaps it is not a 'pet' bred rat?

krlyr

meritaten wrote: »

I hate to say this - but the source for this rat is hardly reputable. perhaps it is not a 'pet' bred rat?

Having given temporary refuge to some wild x domestic rats (hoarding rescue situation getting out of hand and pet rats breeding with intruding wild ones), you would certainly know if you'd been given a wild rat as a pet! OP doesn't specify the colour either but pet rats come in many colours whereas wild rats would be agouti (or black, but we don't tend to get wild black rats in the UK) - though there's a very slim chance of a mutated wild rat, but I would expect the behaviour to be much more aggressive, much less handable, much more unpredictable, etc. - you couldn't so much as walk past the cage of these 'hybrid' rats without them fluffing up and hissing out of you from fear (which is the reason I was only temporary refuge - I hadn't been told about their ancestry and once I saw them I thought it wasn't very fair to keep them in a typical pet situation which is all I could offer - they later were rehomed in a large group to live in a huge, more enclosed cage with much less interaction)

Notsosharp

He's definitely not a "wild" rat (apart from being psychotic).

He's a pure white dumbo rat with black eyes (very cute, aside from the biting thing).

Kylr - Rat hoarding:eek: sounds like a bit of a nightmare! I'm not sure I could handle a lot of them!

meritaten

I didnt mean wild rats (though that is possible) - I meant rats bred like puppy farms. never socialised. rats can be great pets, and can be very affectionate - its rare to have a 'pet' rat which is aggressive.

Notsosharp

Oh I see OP.

He came from Pets At Home so he probably isn't the world's best socialised rat to start with. On top of that he's basically been stuck in a too small cage (I'm saving for a bigger one and eventually hope to have two in there) and just left to get on with it.

He doesn't fluff up when he sees me, he's curious and will come up to the bars of the cage but put your hands/fingers near the bars he'll make a "grab" for them, either with his hands or his teeth!

I agree it's rare for a rat to be aggressive and I've never come across it before that's why I'm a bit non plussed! I've had 14 rats and never an aggressive one out of any of them!

I had one rat called Molly who would crawl about all over the place and when she got tired she would crawl down my top and go to sleep. Alfie my boy would sort of "giggle" when I rubbed his tummy and another girl called Hazel would just come and sit on me for hours (that's when she wasn't climbing/chewing the curtains) I had to leave them all when I left my EX because I couldn't take them with me and I miss them all