Feedback advice

badger09

Hoping the experienced eBayers can advise.

I 'bought' with a 'Best offer accepted' new iPhone 4S on 30 August. I paid immediately, as I always do but heard nothing until 4 September when I got this email from PayPal telling me about a full refund:

"Message from merchant: Paypal have restricted my account and as a result i cannot honour this purchase as i operate as a dropshipper.
Apologies for the inconvenience caused."

It caused a delay but I bought another phone (£55:( more ). My purchase history is showing 1 awaiting feedback. What feedback is appropriate in these circumstances?

Crowqueen

Personally I would have appreciated a better apology from the seller. They have said sorry but it sounds a bit glib - they are talking to someone whose money they depend upon for the security of their business, they should really have treated you a little better than that.

The length of time between purchase and refund is also 6 days - 30/31/1/2/3/4 - but part of that is a weekend so it depends whether you think that they refunded quick enough what colour a non-positive might be.

Had the seller apologised properly or sent me a better composed email, I might leave a neutral. However, in this situation I would say at least a neg and a poor star for comms, and a non-performing seller report.

What is their other feedback like? Could this have been anticipated (e.g. that they have had too many problems lately?) or might it have come out of the blue? To be honest, if they have these sort of cash-flow issues they are going down the pan pretty fast, so I wouldn't lift a finger to try and salvage their account.

badger09

Crowqueen wrote: »

Personally I would have appreciated a better apology from the seller. They have said sorry but it sounds a bit glib - they are talking to someone whose money they depend upon for the security of their business, they should really have treated you a little better than that.

The length of time between purchase and refund is also 6 days - 30/31/1/2/3/4 - but part of that is a weekend so it depends whether you think that they refunded quick enough what colour a non-positive might be.

Had the seller apologised properly or sent me a better composed email, I might leave a neutral. However, in this situation I would say at least a neg and a poor star for comms, and a non-performing seller report.

What is their other feedback like? Could this have been anticipated (e.g. that they have had too many problems lately?) or might it have come out of the blue? To be honest, if they have these sort of cash-flow issues they are going down the pan pretty fast, so I wouldn't lift a finger to try and salvage their account.

Thanks so much. This was just the sort of advice I was looking for.

It was a private seller with only double digit feedback (mostly as a buyer) so I knew I was taking a bit of a chance. However, they were selling 5 iPhones and nothing in the listing suggested they were a (inexperienced/unreliable?) dropshipper.

In the end, after the refund, I bought one from another private seller and am 100% happy with the transaction.

On balance, given that there was approx £400 involved, a delay and a glib apology, I think a neg is justified .

Crowqueen

You were taking a huge risk as that sort of seller should have had alarm bells ringing.

(a) Unregistered business. If they admit they are dropshipping, that is firmly within HMRC's definition of a business, and though they do not declare that on eBay, they are cheating at least eBay and very possibly both Trading Standards (who could hound them over lack of declaration of business status and correct terms) and possibly HMRC. Although they could be properly registered for tax, the chances are, if they are not aware of their status as a business, they probably don't want to pay their dues to the taxperson.

A private individual cannot drop-ship - buy directly to sell on - without becoming a business. It is highly unlikely either that a private seller will have multiple new items to sell off. The only possibly grey area as regards identifying a seller as a business is multiple secondhand items and an eclectic selection thereof. My account has about 20 books listed at the moment from a range of subjects and I don't necessarily look like a business but no-one would know if I had bought those books specifically because I believed I could sell them on eBay or that they were my own books. Some booksellers are specialists in a particular area so even those people with a narrow range can be businesses; equally, some people have huge libraries and need to downsize so could potentially flood the market with hundreds of books all being totally legitimate private possessions.

But your seller is definitely a business, end of.

(b) Paypal will also see what they are doing and be tightening the screws. They would class that as a high risk transaction and at the very least the money would be held for 21 days or an indication of buyer satisfaction such as positive feedback. I would imagine, however, that what they are listing has set numerous red flags against their account and they will shortly be told that their business model is not suitable for eBay.

(c) Dropshipping is inherently unreliable - I have heard of people doing it successfully but more often than not they fail to see the risks involved and are caught out. Lack of cash flow because of liquidity restrictions means they are unable to pay their suppliers, and that just compounds problem (b) as they are unable to prove to Paypal and eBay that they are actually supplying the goods they are taking money for.

I'm glad you had a successful sale. Personally this sort of thing is why I would save up for new kit from a reputable business. I'm in the process of looking for a new computer and the one place I would not buy it is eBay.

badger09

Crowqueen wrote: »

You were taking a huge risk as that sort of seller should have had alarm bells ringing.

(a) Unregistered business. If they admit they are dropshipping, that is firmly within HMRC's definition of a business, and though they do not declare that on eBay, they are cheating at least eBay and very possibly both Trading Standards (who could hound them over lack of declaration of business status and correct terms) and possibly HMRC. Although they could be properly registered for tax, the chances are, if they are not aware of their status as a business, they probably don't want to pay their dues to the taxperson.

A private individual cannot drop-ship - buy directly to sell on - without becoming a business. It is highly unlikely either that a private seller will have multiple new items to sell off. The only possibly grey area as regards identifying a seller as a business is multiple secondhand items and an eclectic selection thereof. My account has about 20 books listed at the moment from a range of subjects and I don't necessarily look like a business but no-one would know if I had bought those books specifically because I believed I could sell them on eBay or that they were my own books. Some booksellers are specialists in a particular area so even those people with a narrow range can be businesses; equally, some people have huge libraries and need to downsize so could potentially flood the market with hundreds of books all being totally legitimate private possessions.

But your seller is definitely a business, end of.

(b) Paypal will also see what they are doing and be tightening the screws. They would class that as a high risk transaction and at the very least the money would be held for 21 days or an indication of buyer satisfaction such as positive feedback. I would imagine, however, that what they are listing has set numerous red flags against their account and they will shortly be told that their business model is not suitable for eBay.

(c) Dropshipping is inherently unreliable - I have heard of people doing it successfully but more often than not they fail to see the risks involved and are caught out. Lack of cash flow because of liquidity restrictions means they are unable to pay their suppliers, and that just compounds problem (b) as they are unable to prove to Paypal and eBay that they are actually supplying the goods they are taking money for.

I'm glad you had a successful sale. Personally this sort of thing is why I would save up for new kit from a reputable business. I'm in the process of looking for a new computer and the one place I would not buy it is eBay.

Thanks again Crowqueen.

Sorry, I mislead by describing as a private seller - I meant not a seller of mobile phones or similar items, but seller did not state she was dropshipping! She is actually a beauty therapist so I assume registered as a business. As a retired Tax Inspector I've given up stressing about this

Had she said she was a dropshipper, I wouldn't have risked £400! However, I did feel that with 5 identical items for sale, I would be ok (safety in numbers?)

In the end, I bought a phone from a (genuine, I hope, private seller) and am very happy with my purchase.

soolin

badger09 wrote: »

Thanks again Crowqueen.

Sorry, I mislead by describing as a private seller - I meant not a seller of mobile phones or similar items, but seller did not state she was dropshipping! She is actually a beauty therapist so I assume registered as a business. As a retired Tax Inspector I've given up stressing about this

Had she said she was a dropshipper, I wouldn't have risked £400! However, I did feel that with 5 identical items for sale, I would be ok (safety in numbers?)

In the end, I bought a phone from a (genuine, I hope, private seller) and am very happy with my purchase.

It doesn't matter about their status with HMRC, they should be showing business registration on ebay- otherwise you as a buyer have less rights.

I think you might have had a lucky escape, drop shipping suggests you may well have got something dodgy.Personally I would not be buying anything high end from a private seller if they are showing multiples.

I would leave a neg as I think it completely justified.

Crowqueen

Plus goodness knows where their stock comes from and how kosher it is.

If someone is a business on eBay it will say 'Registered as a business seller' below her name on the listing page and also on their feedback page.