State workers still enjoy advantage over private employees

Graham_Devon

I do wish these sorts of poorly researched articles would stop being pedaled by the press.

The public sector has been doing all it can to offload the lower paid jobs to the private sector in response to pressure from the private sector and the press.

Even our local bin men are now private employees.

If you outsource the lower paid jobs to the private sector, it's obvious that the private sector will hold more lower paid jobs.

Theres a lot of wastage in the public sector, but all these types of articles achieve is to put a bit of hatred between the two sectors.

Secondly, the article seems to merely compare all workers to all workers. There will be a hell of a lot more part time workers in the public sector as an average of total workers, than there will be in the private sector. Largely due to flexible working.

So that doesn't neccesarily mean that the public sector worker enjoys less hours....it could just mean that their contracted hours are less on average. Working it out in hourly pay terms skips this little issue.

It's like saying part time workers do less work than full time workers....of course they do less work....but they get less pay too.

I'd like to know whether they include our military in these figures....people who are on the job 24/7 for months of the year. How is this worked out, or do they just ignore these people as the hourly wage would dive and time on the job spiral out of control?

StevieJ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Theres a lot of wastage in the public sector, but all these types of articles achieve is to put a bit of hatred between the two sectors.

Job done, have you never heard of divide and conquer

mystic_trev

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The public sector has been doing all it can to offload the lower paid jobs to the private sector in response to pressure from the private sector and the press.

The reason for the Reform article is to counteract the TUC Conference Agenda, which is against any Private company providing Public Services.

The Agenda for 2012 Annual TUC Congress makes two arguments:
· Private sector companies should not provide any public services.
· Public services should not be subject to any cuts in funding and headcount. By implication, they should be protected from change.

A._Badger

ruggedtoast wrote: »

These services incorporate, but are not limited to, policing, schooling, healthcare, local government, further and higher education, health and safety, roads, dentistry and forestry services.

Thank you for the list which reminds us just those areas where the country is so poorly served.

A career as a satirist awaits you.

Loughton_Monkey

ruggedtoast wrote: »

You may scoff, but as a boomer you are fortunate to enjoy an array of world class public services from Britain's state workers.

These services incorporate, but are not limited to, policing, schooling, healthcare, local government, further and higher education, health and safety, roads, dentistry and forestry services.

I am sure you are quite pleased with these services and are even now planning how to redress the deficit you have caused by using more than you have returned.

Phew!

Where do I start?

I have no children to 'school' or 'educate' and I go to a private dentist. I would much rather the Health & Safety executive be sacked in entirity.........

How do you know how much tax I've paid?

More to the point, how can anybody (let alone I) be "quite pleased" with services that come at a huge uneconomic cost, delivered by (generally) inadequate overpaid people?

Being a 'boomer' has nothing to do with it! Us boomers did quite well (thank you very much) with a public sector (and cost thereof) that was a mere fraction of what it is today.

Do you not recognise that there may just be a correlation here?

ruggedtoast

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

Phew!

Where do I start?

I have no children to 'school' or 'educate' and I go to a private dentist. I would much rather the Health & Safety executive be sacked in entirity.........

How do you know how much tax I've paid?

More to the point, how can anybody (let alone I) be "quite pleased" with services that come at a huge uneconomic cost, delivered by (generally) inadequate overpaid people?

Being a 'boomer' has nothing to do with it! Us boomers did quite well (thank you very much) with a public sector (and cost thereof) that was a mere fraction of what it is today.

Do you not recognise that there may just be a correlation here?

I think I should point out to you, that many of the people who work in the public sector whom you criticise, are themselves boomers.

Minds blown.

Gen X: 1
Boomers: 0

lostinrates

Dunroamin wrote: »

Considering that all workers have the right to a minimum of 28 days annual leave that doesn't speak well for the article's accuracy!

From direct.gov

"The basics of holiday rights
There is a minimum right to paid holiday, but your employer may offer more than this. The main things you should know about holiday rights are that:
you are entitled to a minimum of 5.6 weeks paid annual leave - 28 days for someone working five days a week (capped at a statutory maximum of 28 days for all working patterns)"

Yep. Everyone has the right to them. But everyone also has the right to be on the redundancy list! My husbands holiday days (21 plus bank holidays) are probably all going to be used this year, but it will be the second time in the time he has worked for his employers that has happened.

Just like he works at weekends when he has to, and evenings, nights etc. Going the extra mile counts in some areas of private sector, npot necessarily to advance you, but to keep your job. Won't be long before some one points out he cannot work all those hours because an eu work hours directive. Pffft.

thegirlintheattic

Methodology seems a bit dodgy, though I have not read the full Reform report, and shows how statistics can be used to prove anything.

Seems like the survey compared all workers to all workers, making it pretty much useless. You'd expect public sector workers (who include doctors, nurses, teachers and the like) to have a higher average pay due to the required qualifications. If you are comparing this to all workers in the private sector (lots of whom have no qualifications post-16), then of course the public sector have higher pay.

As for working hours, have they included part-time? If so, then it is likely that the higher % of part-time workers in the public sector have again affected the results.

Unless you are comparing like for like - for example private teacher to state - these surveys are useless.

vivatifosi

I work in both the public and private sectors and arguing over who has the best and worst pays is just a way of seeking to divide and rule.

My experience of working in the public sector is that I get 21 days holidays on top of bank hols and work a 37 hour week (pro rata). I earn a lot less than I did in the private sector doing a similar job. In terms of job security, I do think it is greater in the public sector (only my experience) but my sense is that your contribution counts more towards your survival in the private sector. I don't think the public sector is particularly meritocratic, but I've never worked for another truly large organisation so I'm not sure whether that's a big employer thing or a public sector one. Incidentally my private sector pension scheme was better too, though that was probably more as a result of being in the right place at the right time than anything else.

jbreckmckye

> private sector more efficient than public

I've worked with organizations from both spheres, and I can assure you that large private organizations are just as poorly-managed and inefficient as their public counterparts. Of course I'm not at liberty to name names (unfortunately, I chose my real name as my handle on the forums), but you'd be amazed at what goes off.

Inefficiency and politics are traits of large organizations, not public ones.

inadequate overpaid people

What if I told you that the NHS spend per capita is half the total private health spend per capita in the United States of America?