Landlord Turns up on doorstep requesting £150, where do we stand? (sewerage charges)

Gothpugs

The landlord turned up on our doorstep requesting £50 to cover the costs of emptying the septic tank at our cottage.

We are in a little courtyard of 5 cottages, and according to the landlord each house pays £50 each time the septic tank is emptied (3 times a year, therefore £150 a year per house) she said that we should have been told about it by the estate agents, and that it should also be in our contract.

We declined to pay at the time, saying that we were told no such thing and were certain it was not in our contract.

We checked our contract and the only reference to sewerage charges is this

• The rent payable

£399 Monthly
Excluding WATER RATES INCLUDING SEWERAGE AND ENVIROMENTAL CHARGES

3(c) Services
(iii) To pay for all services to the property: the gas, electricity, water rates including sewerage and enviromental services (if applicable and if not included in the rent) council tax (or any other property tax) telephone line rental and call charges, television license fee and satellite cable fee if installed

Nowhere does it say that we are applicable to pay sewerage charges, how much or how often.

Indeed we didn't even realise the cottages were on a septic tank until a farmer came to empty it.

We were not very impressed either at the landlord turning up about this, as after the septic tank was emptied one of the drains overflowed and we had sewerage in front of the houses for a month before we could get the landlord to have it removed

Are we right to think she cannot expect us to pay this, when its not listed anywhere in our contract and we knew nothing about it until she turned up on the doorstep expecting £50 then and there

caeler

Gothpugs wrote: »

Nowhere does it say that we are applicable to pay sewerage charges, how much or how often.

I think it does! It states you rent excludes water and sewerage. I have to pay my water board for those services because I am mains. Appreciate you were not aware but I'd imagine your first water bill would have pointed out the lack of sewerage cover and point in the direct of a septic tank?

Bit of a shock but I think your still liable. Maybe your LL will realise your naivety and offer a monthly installment programme?

Gothpugs

caeler wrote: »

I think it does! It states you rent excludes water and sewerage. I have to pay my water board for those services because I am mains. Appreciate you were not aware but I'd imagine your first water bill would have pointed out the lack of sewerage cover and point in the direct of a septic tank?

Bit of a shock but I think your still liable. Maybe your LL will realise your naivety and offer a monthly installment programme?

It says we have to pay sewerage charges "where applicable", it does not say anywhere that we are applicable.
Nor anything about how often and how much it would be.

We pay our water direct to Yorkshire water, every 6 months.

We were not even aware we were on a septic tank until they came to empty it, Indeed I didn't think anyone was on septic tanks nowadays!

googler

How do you reach the conclusion that 'not applicable' applies to you?

It says in writing that sewerage charges are excluded from the rent.

It says in writing you are to pay for all sewerage charges, if applicable. It's applicable because there's a septic tank attached to the property and you haven't paid for it to be serviced as part of the rent.......

*Robin*

Gothpugs wrote: »

Nowhere does it say that we are applicable to pay sewerage charges

What about this:

Gothpugs wrote: »

3(c) Services
(iii) To pay for all services to the property: the gas, electricity, water rates including sewerage and enviromental services (if applicable and if not included in the rent) council tax (or any other property tax) telephone line rental and call charges, television license fee and satellite cable fee if installed

The agent ought to have told you about the septic tank, especially as you need to be much more careful what goes down the loo - maybe that's why it needs emptying so frequently? - but as Caeler says, you should have noticed that there are no sewerage charges on your water bill.

Sorry, not what you wanted to hear.

ETA: We have a septic tank at the cottage (cottage is occupied 50% of the time). The tank has not needed emptying in twenty years; feed it out-of-date yoghurt and the odd dead mouse and the bacteria should just, umm, eat everything so there's just a little water run-off into a soak away (does wonders for the fruit trees planted round it). Oh and never ever put bleach - or anything except 'product' - down the toilet! ..I can't understand why your landlord didn't explain that to you at length.

Gothpugs

googler wrote: »

How do you reach the conclusion that 'not applicable' applies to you?

It says in writing that sewerage charges are excluded from the rent.

It says in writing you are to pay for all sewerage charges, if applicable. It's applicable because there's a septic tank attached to the property and you haven't paid for it to be serviced as part of the rent.......

My point is that we weren't aware that we were applicable, nowhere in the contract does it say we are applicable so how were we supposed to know we were?
I thought that with the contract saying "if applicable" if you were applicable, they would state that in the contract, as well as a price you are expected to pay, and how often, because if not what is to stop her saying she wants me to pay £10 a day? or a £100 a month towards sewerage?

I know £150 doesn't seem like a lot of money for a year, but when its unexpected and not budgeted for it is a lot!

We weren't even aware of the septic tank existing until they came to empty it, how can the landlord just turn up one day, 5 months into our contract wanting £50 on the day, without telling us or making us aware earlier that we are meant to pay £150 a year towards this?

It is not a natural to assume that the property is on a septic tank as 99% of people aren't

it doesn't say anywhere in the contract that the property is on a septic tank

PasturesNew

Applicable means "if you use it". You flush your loo, you pull the plug in your sink.... that means it's applicable.

You pay electricity only if applicable .... every time you flick on your lights you're applicable.

The bill is due.

IHateDida

Gothpugs wrote: »

It is not a natural to assume that the property is on a septic tank as 99% of people aren't

it doesn't say anywhere in the contract that the property is on a septic tank

I guess you pay a water bill? That would list what services you are paying for - eg metered/rates and also sewerage. If it doesn't show the cost of waste water, then you need to assume you will be paying for it via a septic tank.

I wouldn't grumble over £150 a year - thats relatively cheap - better than paying a water company. I guess the cost wasn't in your contract as it would depend on how much the company concerned would charge for emptying at the time - it can varying with diesel prices etc...

The landlord should have billed you via the post showing you a copy of the emptying cost - and I would ask for that if you haven't received a copy. I'm afraid you won't get out of it though (and it did menton sewerage in the contract) - we all have to pay for our waste (!) to be disposed of somehow!!!

jjlandlord

The charge is clearly stated in the contract...

I would request to get an invoice, and receipt. For the invoice I would also request a copy of the invoice the landlord got to show the charge corresponds to the actual cost.

jamie11

*Robin* wrote: »

What about this:

ETA: We have a septic tank at the cottage (cottage is occupied 50% of the time). The tank has not needed emptying in twenty years; feed it out-of-date yoghurt and the odd dead mouse and the bacteria should just, umm, eat everything so there's just a little water run-off into a soak away (does wonders for the fruit trees planted round it). Oh and never ever put bleach - or anything except 'product' - down the toilet! ..I can't understand why your landlord didn't explain that to you at length.

I agree, a properly built septic tank with a good 'soakaway' should not have to be emptied every 4 months, I have one in Spain for this house, we have never had a problem with it so far.

Try flushing a dead rabbit down the loo (in bits), that will restart the bacteria working.

Yorkie1

I'd put forward an alternative argument.

The contract states "water rates including sewerage". This is not a payment towards water rates i.e. the water board / company. It is a different payment for which the T does not have their own account with a company.

I'd certainly be arguing that the contract was not specific about the emptying of septic tanks - which is not a water rateable activity but rather an ad hoc charge over which the T has no control (frequency, problems).

Might get the LL to agree that this is not chargeable this time round but now that the T is on notice, will be from now on.