Fence/boundary question

Leif

My deeds say that my left hand fence (looking towards the end of the garden) is my responsibility, as is the one at the end of the garden. My neighbours say it was not registered with the land registry so they adopted it. Is this possible? I hope not, as I'd like a higher fence as they have decking, and since the garden slopes downwards, they sit on the decking and overlook my garden destroying privacy.

Mojisola

If your deeds show that the boundary is yours, the neighbours are talking rubbish. It is "registered with the LA" - it's on your deeds!

You will be limited to 2m if you put up a fence. Will that be high enough?

It might be worth considering leaving the fence in place and planting some shrubs which will screen your garden.

mrschaucer

Your deeds usually state only that the BOUNDARY is yours - nothing to do with fencing. (You don't have to have anything there if you don't want.) Your neighbours could possibly have paid for and put up the fence (their choice), but they should really have erected it on their own land, not the actual boundary. They haven't "adopted" anything! Try and come to some arrangement with them - if you feel it's too low perhaps you could pay for some trellis along the top? If you really want to fall out with them, demand they remove "their" fence from "your" boundary and put your own one in. But that's not a course to be recommended ...

notrouble

As Mrschaucer says, the fence belongs to whoever bought/erected it.
If it was put up by the neighbour on your land (in this case the boundary, which you say is yours) then that consitutes trespass. You could simply remove it, though this is likely to result in a long-term neighbour dispute, so better to negotiate/reach a compromise.

You could also, of course, erect another, higher, fence on your side of theirs, but this would in effect mean you lose a bit of land.

The trellis on top of the existing fence seems like a good idea.

keystone

Mrs C is correct. A T on the boundary (which is what I suspect you are talking about) means you are responsible for maintaining the boundary not for maintaining a fence. If you chose to fence it thats your prerogative but if you do then the fence should be on your side on the boundary and not on it. There is no requirement (unless specifically mentioned in your deeds, which it is in my case but for a specific reason which is irrelevant here) for anyone to erect a fence on any boundary they are responsible for.

Also the old, often relied on, arguments about "good" side facing me means its your fence and fence is on RHS so its my fence are nothing more than a myth

Whomsoever erects a fence it is their responsibility to maintain that fence and they can erect it so that the "good" side faces whichever way they like.

The key in this case is where is the boundary? If the fence is on the boundary (which shouldn't happen to avoid arguments - usually between successors in title of course who have no knowledge of what went before) then the simple arrangement is to share responsibility for maintenance.

If the boundary is their side of the fence then the fence is on your land and to "adopt" it (which is a complete nonsense anyway) they have trespassed over the boundary and stolen it.

If the boundary is your side of the fence then it is their fence and they can do what they like with it. In this case you are perfectly at liberty to erect another fence at a height you chose (up to 2m without planning permission between rear gardens) immediately on your side of the boundary ie just a matter of inches from theirs.

Talking of planning permission if the deck is that large and from it they can peer into your garden and house then they probably should have applied for PP. If found to be in breach of planning regs so the Council can order them to knock it down and if they don't they might just come in one day and do it for them.

The above could get all too difficult. Best way to sort it is a cup of tea, piece of cake and a friendly chat on the way forwad.

Cheers

Edit: Poster above and I were typing at same time. Same message.

mrschaucer

Yes, I believe decking shouldn't be raised more than 30cm above the ground next to it, so a shufti over the fence might be called for.

Leif

mrschaucer wrote: »

If you really want to fall out with them, demand they remove "their" fence from "your" boundary and put your own one in. But that's not a course to be recommended ...

I don't want to fall out with them as they are nice, although this morning when I said hello to her, I was ignored. No idea why. He discovered that the drain that leads from his garage's guttering is blocked. And we then discovered that the drain pipe runs along under the fence, and a root from my holly had grown into it, and broken it. He could have asked me to pay for repairs (it is his right), but he's not like that. So we spent today excavating the pipe, and removing my holly stump. He's very easy going.

keystone wrote: »

Mrs C is correct. A T on the boundary (which is what I suspect you are talking about) means you are responsible for maintaining the boundary not for maintaining a fence.

Yes of course, you are correct, and that is what I mean to say.

keystone wrote: »

If you chose to fence it thats your prerogative but if you do then the fence should be on your side on the boundary and not on it. There is no requirement (unless specifically mentioned in your deeds, which it is in my case but for a specific reason which is irrelevant here) for anyone to erect a fence on any boundary they are responsible for.

Also the old, often relied on, arguments about "good" side facing me means its your fence and fence is on RHS so its my fence are nothing more than a myth

Whomsoever erects a fence it is their responsibility to maintain that fence and they can erect it so that the "good" side faces whichever way they like.

The key in this case is where is the boundary? If the fence is on the boundary (which shouldn't happen to avoid arguments - usually between successors in title of course who have no knowledge of what went before) then the simple arrangement is to share responsibility for maintenance.

If the boundary is their side of the fence then the fence is on your land and to "adopt" it (which is a complete nonsense anyway) they have trespassed over the boundary and stolen it.

If the boundary is your side of the fence then it is their fence and they can do what they like with it. In this case you are perfectly at liberty to erect another fence at a height you chose (up to 2m without planning permission between rear gardens) immediately on your side of the boundary ie just a matter of inches from theirs.

I have to try and sort this out nicely with them. Problem is they might think I am having them on. They spoke to the Land Registry who said they now have responsibility for the fence on the boundary.

keystone wrote: »

Talking of planning permission if the deck is that large and from it they can peer into your garden and house then they probably should have applied for PP. If found to be in breach of planning regs so the Council can order them to knock it down and if they don't they might just come in one day and do it for them.

The above could get all too difficult. Best way to sort it is a cup of tea, piece of cake and a friendly chat on the way forwad.

Cheers

Edit: Poster above and I were typing at same time. Same message.

It is a problem. They are nice, he is an electrician, and so I want to keep him sweet as he gives good advice, and knows good trades. I think there is a reg that as long as the height at one end is no more than a defined value, 30cm say, then the rest can be higher if the ground slopes. Asking them to remove it is drastic, and would lead to 'issues' that might last. I suspect he would be peeved, but she would hate me, and I think it really is not good to fall out with neighbours, even if I am legally in the 'right'.

Shrubs take years to grow, and I don't want to give them the fence, and have to build another on my side, and lose some land, albeit only 6". Maybe I spend a bit more on a larger shrub or two, ones that grow fast, to save a year or two.

Leif

mrschaucer wrote: »

Yes, I believe decking shouldn't be raised more than 30cm above the ground next to it, so a shufti over the fence might be called for.

I think that applies to the highest part of the garden, so on a slope it can be more in parts.

Mojisola

Leif wrote: »

They spoke to the Land Registry who said they now have responsibility for the fence on the boundary.

I'd be very surprised if the LA did say this to them. The LA doesn't make rulings like that. Maybe they misunderstood what they were told.


Shrubs take years to grow, and I don't want to give them the fence, and have to build another on my side, and lose some land, albeit only 6". Maybe I spend a bit more on a larger shrub or two, ones that grow fast, to save a year or two.

The right bamboo will provide an immediate screen. Unless you're certain you're buying a non-invasive type, keep them in pots. There are other plants like Buddleias which will grow to 6 - 8ft in a year.

The advice usually given on GardenLaw - https://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=f3e17ed8ecb7fbbaf3d9fe94c5489f77 - is that, if the boundary is your responsibility and there is nothing specified in your deeds, you can mark the boundary in whatever you want - anything from a single wire to a solid 2m construction.

The law expects a householder to fence to limit of their land so I don't understand keystone's point about the fence having to be on your land. It's best if it is on the boundary. It causes no end of problems if people put the fence away from the boundary because eventually a neighbour will start to use all the land right up to the fence.

As I understand it, if the neighbour replaces the fence on the boundary which is yours to maintain rather than on his land on his side of the boundary, he has gifted you the fence but, if you want to stay friends, you may not want to pursue that.

I would try and have a chat with the neighbours and show them your deeds. You could also phone the LA and ask them about what the neighbours have said.

Norman_Castle

As you get on well with them can you explain to them you would like your privacy back. Alternately, sunbathing naked may help.

Might be something useful here http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/frontpage.html

Leif

Leif wrote: »

I think that applies to the highest part of the garden, so on a slope it can be more in parts.

I was wrong.

I checked on the Garden Law web site, and it seems they would need planning permission. It might have been granted given that no-one was living in the house which is not mine when the decking was erected.

Is there a way to find out if they have PP?