Indy: Economic circumstance is forcing grown adults to live like juveniles

ukcarper

Gracchus_Babeuf wrote: »

Really? Where? I live in Reading and my small 95 square metre mid-terraced house is worth £260k (OK, it's in a fairly upmarket area but even so). And a one year season ticket with tube fare is £4,516 and rising 3% higher than inflation for the foreseeable future.

I live about 8 miles from Guildford and the figures are accurate I know someone who has just sold a nice 2 bed mid terraced in Reading for £190k not the best area but reasonable.

ILW

Gracchus_Babeuf wrote: »

The world has changed -you don't seem to have understood that. In the 1970s only 7% of 18 year olds went up to university, now it's around 30% - maybe more. The middle class has expanded hugely. So, the comparison is still perfectly valid.

And your comparing a software developer to a technician or mason is plainly risible, given that freelance IT experts (practically all graduates these days) can earn anything up to £650 per day - depending on skill and seniority of course. And now there are recognised professional certifications for IT staff from the BCS and other bodies.
As for law/accountancy/medical partners the truth is that only a proportion of professionals in these fields will ever rise to these dizzy heights. Many never will.

You are comparing the rich of 1972 with the rich of 2012 - I am referring to the middle middle-class.

My point is that the comparisons are to an extent meaningless and just causing disappointment for many.

I would suspect that the top 7% academically are in a similar position today as the top 7% were in the 70s. If most people have a degree that does not mean that can all go on being in the top 7% pay grade.

Going back a few hundred years, the top stonemasons were also freelance and earned very good money.

Gracchus_Babeuf

FTBFun wrote: »

!!!!!!??? I bought my first place (a 1 bed flat admittedly) with a £27k deposit, and my next one will be £50k equity + money. What on earth did you buy?

A terraced house costing £225k in 2005. Yes we could have bought a £350k 4 bed detached but why? We have no kids and not planning any. Our modest £570 monthly mortgage payments leave us with plenty of disposable income for fun, decent cars and nice holidays.

FTBFun

Gracchus_Babeuf wrote: »

Really? Where? I live in Reading and my small 95 square metre mid-terraced house is worth £260k (OK, it's in a fairly upmarket area but even so). And a one year season ticket with tube fare is £4,516 and rising 3% higher than inflation for the foreseeable future.

95 square metres is not "small" - it's actually over 1000 sq ft.

My brother has a 2 bed terrace and its about 600 sq ft - they still have plenty of room, him and his wife, and it was nowhere near £260k.

ukcarper

DervProf wrote: »

Good point, and I think I have suggested this before.

My mother worked part time in a shop and did a bit of house cleaning. My father repaired mowers for the local council. Hardly high flying careers, even they will admit. They still live in the same property they bought as FTBers. As far as I understand it today, people in similarly paid/skilled jobs (postmen, sales assistants, motor mechanics, refuse collectors, nurses etc - what I call "proper" jobs) don't often spend ~£250k on their first home in their early to mid twenties.

Even if they didn't buy an iPhone and spend £80 on a Friday night out every week, I doubt they could afford anywhere near that amount.

People keep posting this rubbish it might be true in certain circumstances but I first bought in the seventies earned a lot more than a postman and had to move 20 miles to be able to buy.

FTBFun

Gracchus_Babeuf wrote: »

A terraced house costing £225k in 2005. Yes we could have bought a £350k 4 bed detached but why? We have no kids and not planning any. Our modest £570 monthly mortgage payments leave us with plenty of disposable income for fun, decent cars and nice holidays.

So you had a 50% deposit more or less - that's not comparable to any FTB, not now or in the past.

Gracchus_Babeuf

ILW wrote: »

My point is that the comparisons are to an extent meaningless and just causing disappointment for many.

I would suspect that the top 7% academically are in a similar position today as the top 7% were in the 70s. If most people have a degree that does not mean that can all go on being in the top 7% pay grade.

Going back a few hundred years, the top stonemasons were also freelance and earned very good money.

Interesting point. I see what you are saying - that class and income are two different things. To a large extent you are right - most people I work with speak with that awful 'Thames estuary' English that seems to have spread like a killer virus - but you can blame the comprehensive education system for much of that, and also the dumbing down of TV, especially the BBC. I am one of the few that speaks RP, and stand out like a sore thumb in a sea of Thames estuary and Indian accents.

Funny that when you see old British films from the 60s and 70s all the professional and managerial people speak RP - even the secretaries in many cases - and only the manual workers speak cockney. It's a different world now. I blame Thatcher and all her nonsense about classlessness.

Gracchus_Babeuf

FTBFun wrote: »

So you had a 50% deposit more or less - that's not comparable to any FTB, not now or in the past.

Yes, but I was 38 when I first bought - also not comparable to most FTBs.

Gracchus_Babeuf

FTBFun wrote: »

95 square metres is not "small" - it's actually over 1000 sq ft.

My brother has a 2 bed terrace and its about 600 sq ft - they still have plenty of room, him and his wife, and it was nowhere near £260k.

Ok, firstly my house is full of books and other assorted clutter. Secondly, we live a few yards from the river Thames. Just a few miles up the river in Henley-on-Thames you can find a house like mine for well over £300k. It's all about location.

FTBFun

Gracchus_Babeuf wrote: »

Ok, firstly my house is full of books and other assorted clutter. Secondly, we live a few yards from the river Thames. Just a few miles up the river in Henley-on-Thames you can find a house like mine for well over £300k. It's all about location.

So you weren't complaining about being able to afford a house, but being able to afford a really good house?

Hmmmm.......