VERY VERY worried please help

bikebarbie

Hi Rich,
thank you for your post.
Yes he is a legal exec. although he signs his letter as "Employment solicitor" I have phoned the Law Society this morning and his name is not listed with them. On further investigation through the Law Society webiste the Solicitors is listed there but it does not have Lexcel Accreditation although they have the logo on their home page (if so looks misleading).
I tried to phone the legal ex but guess what? He is on holiday!
The agreement I signed did state that I had to pay disrembursement fees if the case goes to Tribunal but is vague in saying if it has to be before or after. I am not aware of any insurance.
Yes the bill does mention the Remuneration Certificate but I really do not understand it and it needs to be requested within one month of receipt of the bill. However I dont want to cause any upset before the outcome is read as if I win I would pay the bill.
Also when I contacted the Law Society this morning they told me that sooner or later I should pay the bill or part of the bill and that they have every rights to ask for payment for work that they have done, although suggesting that we should wait until the outcome is revealed.

WNBRich

Hi BikeBarbie,

Thanks for the info. My advice is that you notify the senior partner ie solicitor, in writing, that you have received the bill for disbursements, that you cannot immediately pay it, and querying whether or not the legal exec. made arrangements for insurance cover to cover such disbursements.(As you have a conditional fee agreement, this is something that he should have considered)

I accept that you don't wish to upset the firm at this time, but you must realise that they will not care about upsetting yoou by pursuing this bill. You only have one month to request a remuneration certificate, and you have nothing to lose.

peterbaker

WNBRich sounds spot on with advice about how to act quickly with the correct and timely way to prepare to complain.

bikebarbie wrote: »

Also to Peter, I will not go to another hearing the decision will be "deferred" the Chairman will decide a send a letter of the court outcome to my solicitor so after hearing what the Chairman said, the other party now know of our weakness and are most definitely not likely to make another offer.

A deferred decision at a final hearing? Oh. In my opinion there should never be such a thing, but a quick search for Google seems to confirm that there is now. So that's how Tony Blair & Co. clear case backlogs on the cheap. Great.

So surely the Chairman's decision is imminent? Surely the Chairman can't sit on the judgement for more than a day or two or they will start forgetting all they heard at the hearing?

To deal with some of your uncertainty, I think your contact with your lawyer today should be quickly turned from acknowledging receipt of the bill, to asking when you will receive a copy of the Tribunal decision ("I've received your latest bill but I don't know the result of the hearing yet. It's been X days. When may I expect a copy of the decision?")

When was the hearing?

bikebarbie

the bill states:
If our bill relates to non-contentious work and you consider that our bill is excessive, you mya have the right to ask us to obtain a Remuneration Certificate from the Law Society. A R C states either that our fees is fair and reasonable, or substitutes a lower amount. However, if you have agreed to our fee or our rates of charges, in writing,which I did you may be restricted or completely eliminated.

If you wish us to obtain a Remuneration Certificate
1 You must ask to do so within one month of receiving this bill
2 Within the same period you must also pay us (unless we already hold sufficient funds for this purpose) at least:
a) one half of the fee shown in this bill (before addition of VAT and disbursement) and
b) all the VAT shown in the bill and
c) all the disburmsement shown in this bill

However you may ask the law society to waive the requirements for payments set out in paragraph 2 above, which the Law Society can do either completeley or in part. You should have to show that exceptional circumstances apply to you.

I would also note that
a) I signed the agreement and T&C around 7 months after I instructed him
b) my bill only relates to work carried out in the last 5 months of my case

I am sure he sent me another bill in the past ( I am unable to check thin now as I am at work) but action was never required and why doesnt this bill show me the whole amount I owe and not just partial?

The way it was explained to me at the tribunal was that the Chair and his aides would meet within 4 weeks to discuss the case and then within 4 weeks AFTER that they would reach an conclusion and they will advice the legal advisor (not me directly) of the outcome. I am now waiting the 4 last weeks.

I just had to deal with so much conflict that I am so uncomfortable foreseeing that I will have to have one with someone I trusted and whom was so suportive throughout the case.

If I ask for the Certificate then should I do it thorugh the solicitors firm or through the Law Society? I am confused because it says that I can ask the Ls to waive the requirements? Should I send 2 letters then?

Thank you again

peterbaker

What a tale of ineptitude on behalf of so-called professionals this is turning out to be!

I hope WNBRich comes back and tells us what next step should be.

I would favour pressing the Law Society quite hard.

I think you might even have grounds for complaint against the Employment Tribunal. They are known to be far from perfect in their administration in far too many regions of the country. Deferring decisions because they don't have the knowledge or gumption to make decisions on the day is just typical of p*ss-poor administration in any business, and in a court it is atrocious. 4 weeks to setup a meeting in informal closed session with goodness knows who plus 4 weeks to write up what they decide? Whatever for?

The way you been treated by all the paid professionals concerned is making me angry. Sorry bikebarbie. I know that doesn't help you much.

My own robust view would be don't worry too much about exactly what you signed with regard to the fee. Concentrate on the overall injustice of the situation and make sure the Law Society know that you are dismayed by it.

WNBRich? Can you help some more?

jobbingmusician

peterbaker wrote: »

I am a little confused about why your lawyer has billed you now.

Their terms apparently said:

Personally, I don't think that paragraph is worded well enough to give them the right to charge you anything until the conclusion of business. It is poorly worded, so if anything other than payment at conclusion of the business was intended then it should have been specified alongwith an alternative timescale for it, because as it is, if partial or full settlement was intended prior to conclusion of business, then the quoted paragraph would be misleading. I am sure any barrister will have submitted a bill quite promptly to your legal representatives, but that is their affair unless they got your agreement to pay as soon as he billed, and it doesn't look to me like they did that, even if they intended to.

I think you are quite entitled to gently remind them that the business is not concluded until you have the Tribunal judgement, and thats when everyone gets paid, hopefully by your ex-employer if your legal team do the damned fine job they are billing you for!

So I personally wouldn't cross swords with your legal representatives or use harsh words just yet. You need them to conclude matters in six weeks! Keep your powder dry. I can't imagine they seriously expect you to actually pay their bill before the final hearing. Their accounts payable team might just be trying it on since the barrister's first bill has almost certainly arrived at their office.

I think Peter's made an excellent point here - the business is not concluded until you get your judgement from the tribunal, so they can't expect payment yet. In addition, if they did not warn you that judgement might be deferred, you cannot have been expected to know that the barrister's bill would come through before judgement was made.

bikebarbie wrote:

If our bill relates to non-contentious work and you consider that our bill is excessive.....

I wouldn't get too strung out about the remuneration certificate. Their bill does NOT relate to non-contentious work unless you win your case (and we are discussing the worst case scenario here). If you win your case there will be no problem in paying their bill (whether they have earnt it is another matter..:rolleyes: ) If you lose your case on the basis that you were out of time, it's not a case of considering the bill excessive, it's about you complaining about the quality of work: specifically, that they did not submit your case to the tribunal in time. This does sound like a potential complaint to the Law Society!!!

tomterm8

I do think this might be time to get a free consultation with the legal advisor at the CAB. I suspect all this is hot air until a judgement is made one way or the other.

I would be tempted to write to them a letter (registered post) along the lines of:

"Dear Mr X,

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

I was under the impression that any payment would become due on the conclusion of business (including any appeals process) as according to the agreement of the Xth

"It has been agreed that you will pay my fees at the conclusion of this business "

Please can you clarify your position in light of our agreement?

Thank you for your help during this difficult time,

Yours Sincerely,"

bikebarbie

thanks guys you dont understand how much I apprecciate and value each and every comment and supportive statement you make, it's really helping me getting through this, and I mean it!
So just to confirm for the time being I am going to write them a letter with regards to non being able to pay now and to wait for the outcome and I should not request a certificate for now is that correct? Hopefully if an answer come through within the 4 weeks and if it comes to worst and turns out negative I would still be in time to ask for it at that point,
I can have the letter ready for posting just in case. Right?

Also do you think it would be ok to send an e-mail (still structred as a letter), I dont want to make an issue as we have been always on good and friendly terms and I dont want them to feel that I am now workign against them. We have exchanged e-mails in the past.

danno_4

Hi Barbie,first and formost stop worrying,im thinking that when you approched your solicitor you would have told him the situation you had got,now with the best will in the world he should have known if there were time limits in what you had gone to see him about.and also if you were offered a settlement by the defendent then normaly any such offer would surly include your solicitor cost's.now if he is now saying that it could be out of time then he would have to answer this,write to him tell that you have been mislead and tell him that if does not resolve it you will be writing to the law society about his behaviour,that shoul do the trick.also did you sign an insurance form regarding no win no fee,any more problems feel free to contact me at stephendanielsc@aol.com.
good luck
danno

jobbingmusician

Absolutely fine to send an email rather than a letter, with 2 provisos.

1. Make sure that you keep a copy - one of my email accounts very annoyingly doesn't do this unless I specify it.

2. Ask them, in the email, to acknowledge receipt for your files.

I think the best content of the email is not to say that you can't pay now, but to say that you are not expecting to be asked to pay now, as you agreed to pay when the business has been concluded, which it clearly hasn't been yet! Your financial position is no business of theirs unless you lose the case due to their incompetence. And in this worst case scenario, you wouldn't be wanting to pay them for submitting your case out of time even if you were a millionaire, would you?