My little eBay/Paypal tale of woe + a suggestion

tonyp2020

Bought two Shure SM58 microphones (130091785485) on Ebay during March 07.
At £50 a pair it was far too cheap for new ones, but I suspended my disbelief, and bought the items using Paypal.
How old do I have to be not to get fooled any more?

The user also listed more auctions for the same sort of stuff, and other eBay users had also bought items. He stated in the auctions that it was stock from a closing down music shop.

I thought I was buying the items from eBay account forth_ind (Barry Forker, Lumphinans, Fife, KY4 9HW UK), and using e-mail address forth_ind@hotmail.com.
I checked his feedback, his other closed selling auctions, and the address was paypal confirmed.
However the payment went to WENQUAN ZHOU in Shanghai, China, using e-mail addresses kuneytianm@hotmail.com and gfyjufgkf@hotmail.com.

The auction was then cancelled by eBay a few hours after I had paid for the items. eBay send me a "TKO Notice, eBay Auction(s) Cancelled" e-mail.
eBay stated in this e-mail that I was not to pay as the user account had been hijacked, but it was too late for me.
There was advice in the e-mail about what to do if payment had already been sent, except what to do if I had paid by Paypal.
Checking the eBay website I found that all traces of all the auctions by Forth_ind had been removed. I assumed that this is to protect eBay in case I copy the auction pages.
Well eBay were too late, I always save the pages.

So my suggestion is that everybody should save the auction pages onto your computer.
In IE (I use IE7) go to File/Save as.../Web Archive, Single file (*.mht)
And save the auction page both before and after making payment.
If something goes wrong, then eBay will remove the pages in order to save its own !!!!, and you will be left without proof that the auction ever existed.

I say the same thing when you use a cash machine, get a receipt, it is the only proof that YOU have that YOU were there.

Searching eBay for what to do next, I found that eBay's advice was to report the item as not received to paypal.
This is wrong, do not do this.

I then complained to Paypal, stating item not received, they contacted the seller who sent them, and me, a tracking number for the items.
Surprisingly the items actually turned up a six days later.
However I did not sign for them, my signature (on the Parcelforce website) is a fake.
The box was left at the front door, even though people were in and answered the door after about 1 minute after hearing a knock.
But they had been delivered.

It quickly became clear that the microphones are counterfeit, poorly made and neither of them worked.
I then informed Paypal that although the microphones had now been received, they were not as described in the auction.
I therefore told Paypal that I reject the items and requested a full refund.
Paypal then closed the complaint because I had received the items.
You cannot change the nature of a complaint once you submitted it to Paypal, and you can only make one complaint per auction.
I can't even consider claiming on my Credit Card because the money was already in my paypal account due to selling items.
I had left it in there for when I bought the microphones.
Live and learn.
Tony

tonyp2020

This morning I received the following e-mail from Wang Yeng, the seller in China.

Hello.
Do you receive my Microphone?and do you like it?
If you receive it,please email me,and please return the payment back to me,what are you think?
Looking forward to your reply!
Best wishes to you!

I am thinking about closing the Paypal account and contacting my Credit Card Company to stop any possible further charges being levied against my CC from Paypal.

Has anybody checked with their CCC about their policy regarding Paypal and in particular their policy about Paypal Chargebacks?

Thanks
Tony

forumfan_2

After reading this, and many other posts on MSE, I am changing my method of payment via PayPal to credit card rather than debit card and transferring any money made from sales as soon as the level exceeds £50.

tonyp2020

Forumfan,
this sort of thing is why we chose a credit card to use with paypal in the first place.
If the CC gets hit at least you still have money in the bank.
But even a CC is not that safe, imho.

I have now asked my CCC the following questions.

Hi, what is your policy with regard to us using our credit card with paypal?
Would you allow paypal to do a "chargeback" against our credit card?
If so, for how long after the original transaction would you let paypal "chargeback" against our credit card?
Thanks

Tony

digerati

A sad (but cautionary) tale to be sure. Always pay by credit card when using PayPal - otherwise you have limited comeback in any dispute over delivery or quality. If you have a balance in your PayPal account - transfer it to your bank account. If less than £50 - send it to one of your other email address not used on your PayPal account (you can cancel it later). If you DON'T use a credit card you CAN'T do a chargeback.

Since you didn't sign for the delivery, you shouldn't have acknowledged receipt to PayPal. Rather you should have taken the unopened package back to the Parcelforce depot with a Return to Sender message. Why? By now you knew the eBay account you purchased from was a hijacked one. Refusing delivery was your only protection.

Your only options at this point would be to file with eBay for Buyer Protection - you might get £35 back out of your £50. You might also file a complaint against PayPal for Money Laudering with the Police. Why? Fraud on eBay is greatly unreported so the Police don't currently put many resources into investigating cases. The more fraud that is reported, the more pressure that goes on eBay and PayPal to stop it. (If it isn't reported, then it isn't 'official' a problem.)

rose_sparky

It's reading threads like this that makes me glad I don't use Paypal.

mbb123

However I did not sign for them, my signature (on the Parcelforce website) is a fake.


i would concider taking this up with parcelforce because as soon as the item had been " recieved " this changed the status of your complaint with e-bay/paypal. you could threaten them with the police as long as the signature they have can be proven not to be yours i would imagine a criminal act has been commited by the driver in forging your signature.

tonyp2020

Thanks for the input, I am still considering exactly what to do next.
I rushed in too early with the initial complaint.

I have just had a fun filled 10 minutes filling in an online Paypal Customer Satisfaction Survey. Not that easy, but hopefully got my points across.