The Most Confusing PPC Sign Yet?

bargepole

This sign has recently gone up outside the Magnet kitchen showroom in High Wycombe.

As well as the usual guff about unenforceable penalties, the last sentence means that you can park if you have the permission of the "owner" (who may or may not be the registered keeper). So I can park my wife's car there and not get a ticket - ha!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3kowjdjuwfh5ayb/eurosign.jpg

AltheHibby

Preparing for next month?

mikey72

Saying as Schedule 4 only refers to Registered Keeper, they may have to change that again soon.

whatmichaelsays

Have they heard of full stops?

trisontana

On the subject of signs:-

Towards clearer sign language
A Talk by Martin Cutts, Plain Language Commission

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/plcdev/home/sfusion/htdocs/staging/new.clearest.co.uk/public/system/files/146/original/SDSSeptember2012.pdf

Thursday 6th September 2012 at 6.30pm
After getting a £100 ticket from a private parking company, Martin Cutts won a court case in 2011 because the judge found the car-park’s signs unclear.

Martin notes that this year the private-parking industry will charge two million motorists up to £150 a time for supposed contraventions of carpark rules, eventually pursuing them for around £160 million in total. Using examples of signs and documents, he will argue that landowners and car-park operators should do much more to minimize contraventions by ‘designing in’ compliance.

Martin will also aim to show that plain language and good typography on private parking signs are not enough. What really matters is the ethical and commercial purpose behind the signs - are they designed to create lucrative contraventions or to help motorists to comply? A new law coming in to force on 1 October will mean that most private parking signs will have to be rewritten and redesigned.

JimmyTheWig

bargepole wrote: »

So I can park my wife's car there and not get a ticket

You can park your wife's car there and not get a ticket as long as you follow their other rules (which aren't on that sign).
If you don't have your wife's permission to park there then you can't, regardless of whether you obey the other rules or not.

HO87

mikey72 wrote: »

Saying as Schedule 4 only refers to Registered Keeper, they may have to change that again soon.

With respect mikey, and at the risk of initiating a somewhat drawn out debate, Schedule 4 does not refer to "registered keeper" it refers to "keeper". It defines "keeper" as the person who kept the vehicle at the time of it being parked. There is a rebuttable presumption that this is the registered keeper but that does not mean that it is the registered keeper.

The wording is precise and, I suspect, Parliament has specifically constructed it in this way to allow for fleet operators who would otherwise be clobbered for the attendant costs. Unfortunately it creates a grey area and demonstrates that thinking was at best muddled. The word "kept" is not further defined within the Schedule and so we have to look at similar provisions elsewhere for assistance. Based on this the term "the person who kept" would pretty much be the person holding the keys. In a majority of cases this would almost always be the driver.

mikey72

HO87 wrote: »

With respect mikey, and at the risk of initiating a somewhat drawn out debate, Schedule 4 does not refer to "registered keeper" it refers to "keeper". It defines "keeper" as the person who kept the vehicle at the time of it being parked. There is a rebuttable presumption that this is the registered keeper but that does not mean that it is the registered keeper.

The wording is precise and, I suspect, Parliament has specifically constructed it in this way to allow for fleet operators who would otherwise be clobbered for the attendant costs. Unfortunately it creates a grey area and demonstrates that thinking was at best muddled. The word "kept" is not further defined within the Schedule and so we have to look at similar provisions elsewhere for assistance. Based on this the term "the person who kept" would pretty much be the person holding the keys. In a majority of cases this would almost always be the driver.

From Schedule 4


"keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper;

"registered keeper”, in relation to a registered vehicle, means the person in whose name the vehicle is registered;


We'll have to wait and see what the court decides it means.

devonlad

bargepole wrote: »

"guff"

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Made me smile that word not heard it for years

James_N

Is there any mileage in the "unfair contract" route. You will notice the sign claims to place responsibility on you for a variety of things, but REFUSES liability for the cars parked there on the white sign alongside.
Cake and eat it comes to mind.

trisontana

I see that on a lot of PPC signs. I thought there were there to "manage" the car-park? Surely that "management" should include a duty of care towards any vehicles parked there?