Why JSA hardship but not ESA hardship?

sniggings

epitome wrote: »

In answer to everyone,

This is not an actual person but a general question

Why miss the WCA? There can be many varied reasons why, including, they never got the invitation letter (twice) on the second time they will close the claim, but how are they supposed to go when they have not been invited?

They are heavily doped up on medication and (assuming they can get it together briefly) phone to re-schedule but ATOS refuses to re-schedule, or tells the customer they will cancel it and send a new appointment, but the appointment does not get cancelled and the next thing the customer gets is a failure to attend letter for an appointment that they asked ATOS to cancel.

The reasons are many and varied and some as you can see are perfectly valid reasons.

The point is, to not pay people on appeal for such closures and to not allow them to claim JSA, and to only give them 3 weeks crisis loans at a pawltry amount AND TO MAKE THEM WAIT A FURTHER 13 WEEKS before another WCA is given is absolutley disgusting, and it drives some people to suicide.

So why not a hardship ESA payment for those who qualify and the payment would be at a reduced rate - just like it is available for JSA claimants...?

the only answer I can see it to get people off ESA, as you say there is not reason why a hardship payment can't be made.

JSA and ESA are both paid for a near enough the same rate for the first 13 weeks anyway.

A hardship payment is not paid in most cases for the first 2 weeks, so even if you appeal it, you will still be without money.

I am in the situation you gave, My ESA was stopped because of a missed medical appointment, I dont even know if I got the letter, my appeal failed on the ground the letter was sent! I have applied for JSA today, I am unsure if I will be allowed to claim, I have had all 3 crisis loans. I just hope I get a decent JSA adviser, who lets me put restictions on the work I can do.

BigAunty

I suppose there isn't ESA hardship because the govt want the process to have an ending - the ultimate sanction is simply to cease it and make the claimant port themselves onto another benefit, the end of the road, unlike JSA where a person can receive multiple sanctions but still qualify for hardship each time.

That's just a guess or assumption of mine that perhaps the govt have established a definate cut-off following the assessment/dismissed or missed appeal.

Of course, it could be seen as the usual left hand not talking to the right hand, a grey area, when someone refused ESA then struggles to claim JSA.

sniggings

stallion4u wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't 100's if not 1,000's of people like you.

I could even make it simpler. You do everything you are told to, attend the assessment etc only to find that you fail with 0 points.

What are the choices open to you? Appeal against the ESA decision - yes if you think that you could cope with everything that goes with it, don't appeal and claim JSA and are honest about your true ability to do any work.

If, as will be expected, you are refused JSA on the grounds of sickness, you are only left with one alternative - appeal even if you actually think that there is no chance of you winning that appeal.

hence why there are so many appeals - it is the only way that someone can get access to any money (unless you lie to the JC when claiming JSA).

If you miss the boat of making that appeal within the 30 days period - then you are on your own and will have to rely on charity handouts for the next 6 months before you can reclaim ESA again.

I am not in a too different situation myself. Having failed a DLA review - HRM/MRC down to nothing. I failed to appeal within the 30 day period. I have no good or justifiable reason why I didn't appeal - I just never got round to it, I couldn't motivate myself to gather the evidence and submit it all. Now I have to wait the regulation 6 months before a new claim can be submitted. In the meantime no matter what happens, I will have lost 7 months of benefits which I can never recover even though there is ample evidence that proves my needs were there when they refused the award.

They have built into the benefit system enough 'traps' and reasons not to pay that the average claimant is always likely to fall into at least one of them.

A totally dysfunctional and not a too joined up system.

You probably know this but if you can get your doctor to say your condition has got worse then you don't need to wait the 6 months.


The daft thing is the government are only making things a lot worse for themselves as it must be costing them more for all these appeals and sending people onto JSA is only adding to the numbers there, which are the ones the media focus on.

missapril75

Maybe it's about time there was a "Citizen's Allowance" introduced. There is a pressure group somewhere promoting this.

Everyone gets an allowance....because everyone pretty much does already.

Just plucking a figure from thin air, lets say everyone gets £70. That's simple to administer.

People in work have their tax allowance reduced by £70 a week, so they see no change and people out of work get pretty much the same money without the need to sign as unemployed or claim sick.

No sanctions, no availability doubts, no organisations making a profit at people's expense and no massive administration costs.

The money saved goes towards a system that properly assists those with different needs.

missapril75

sniggings wrote: »

I just hope I get a decent JSA adviser...

You'd better hope they don't know your identity here and how much you disparage them.:rotfl:

sniggings

missapril75 wrote: »

You'd better hope they don't know your identity here and how much you disparage them.:rotfl:

Why, is that another reason to sanction someone, for having an opinion!

You have just lost your own argument with that comment.

missapril75

sniggings wrote: »

Why, is that another reason to sanction someone, for having an opinion!

Not at all. But it might mean that when you're looking for a favour or flexibility from someone that you spout insulting opinions of, you might not get it.

sniggings

missapril75 wrote: »

Not at all. But it might mean that when you're looking for a favour or flexibility from someone that you spout insulting opinions of, you might not get it.

now you are making stuff up, where have I spouted any insulting opinions on DWP staff?

tomtom256

Fulfil your end of the criteria for ESA and you wouldn't have a hardship.

If you hadn't missed the WCA you wouldn't be in hardship.

Sorry harsh but true, but sometimes you have to take account for your actions.

sniggings

tomtom256 wrote: »

Fulfil your end of the criteria for ESA and you wouldn't have a hardship.

If you hadn't missed the WCA you wouldn't be in hardship.

Sorry harsh but true, but sometimes you have to take account for your actions.

If you read what needs to be wrong with you to pass the mediacl then you would understand why some people may miss an appointment or not follow the rules 100%.

I just hope you are never in need, can't walk, !!!! your pants, can't leave the house, Atos do not have to give you a house visit, miss the appointment and benefit stops.

Oh and hope your postie doesn't misdeliver your appointment letter as that is enough to have your claim cancelled, you miss appointment because you didn't get the letter, the answer is sorry the letter was sent, we can prove that, you must have got it, benefit stopped.

And if you think this is saving you money, think again, the appeals are getting out of control, the cost must be millions.