Police pension scrapped

Andy_L

leereni wrote: »

Above statement isn't true. If I was to retire at 50 my pension would be deferred until I am 67, not 60.

It would be deferred, however you would be able to take it earlier than 67 but it would be reduced to reflect that it would be paid out for longer. Thus you would need to build up extra assets for retirement to make up the difference

rpc

leereni wrote: »

Above statement isn't true. If I was to retire at 50 my pension would be deferred until I am 67, not 60.

That is your Normal Retirement Date. You can take your pension early, with a reduction applied, or you can make other plans to fill the gap. With public sector schemes the latter is probably cheaper.

If you don't pay into the pension, you have to make up the original provision as well as top it up or fill the gap to allow early retirement. Just making up the original provision will cost you far more than you already pay, so how will you make the extra you need for early retirement?

The new terms are not as good as the old terms. They are still better than any other investment, unless you happen to know the numbers for tonight's lotto.

Can't help but think there is a bit of police bashing going on....

If there is any "bashing" then it is usually of public sector workers who wish to retain hugely enormous pensions at the expense of the rest of us. When these pensions were intially set up, life expectancy in retirement was a couple of years. Now it is a couple of decades and most of the cost has fallen on Joe Taxpayer. That is now being rebalanced.

That said, this thread doesn't seem "bashing" compared to most. Pointing out the obvious would be more like it...

Anyway why should an agreement made when I joined be changed?

It hasn't. Your accrued benefits (AFAIK) aren't changing. It is your future benefits that are changing. You agreed to that when you joined (just as you agreed to changes being made to your salary, etc).

leereni

Ummm interesting....

Not sure if it's possible to take it earlier with a reduced amount. Will check that one out....

BTW I have noted a lot of people comparing pension schemes and stating the police one is much better than theirs. Maybe your pension should be improved to fit in line with what police receive rather than the other way round. And if you think it's that good then join up and do the job....

geoffgeofftygeoff

leereni wrote: »

...Maybe your pension should be improved to fit in line with what police receive rather than the other way round. And if you think it's that good then join up and do the job....

That would be great. Who would you like to pay for it? You are lucky in that the taxpayer is forced to pay the employer side of your contributions. These DB schemes guarantee future tax payers money without having to answer the question: can it be paid?

If you want companies to pay for it, firstly legislation would be required as they won't do it otherwise and secondly you have to be happy with increased prices on their products reducing your disposable income. Solution required.

I don't think it's relevant to suggest people change their career just to get the pension. It's a simple idea but in practice not everyone wants to be in the police service. We need wealth creators as well as public servants (and that's not intended to be a snide remark as I value the police service in this country)!

Remember - 100% of the risk of your pension is with the employer (taxpayer). You have 0% risk. Contrast that to my situation (and many are much worse off so I ain't complaining):

Scheme: DC (i.e. 100% risk with employee, no guarantees at all)
Employer (max): 4%
Employee (max): 8%

In addition I contribute 12% in a personal pension as the above would result in a pitiful retirement.

Even with that lot the projections (which are generally too optimistic in my view) make depressing reading.

xylophone

http://www.wypf.polfed.org/assets/files/pensionsguide.pdf 1987 scheme guide
http://www.lancashirepolfed.org.uk/what/pensions2.pdf 2006 scheme guide
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:jvz7Z2vUwUgJ:www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN00700.pdf+police+pension+scheme&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiOeb-vmHc7KaeijP6gEfSssqFhFVmbve5npKLYs6vnyBNFFAODfitwE1bdmE0VSfzlFSUzOQtKqRD0v_jcCs9zkf0LFCBRq5vKrXyGmDik6914oYJPZppUytYMFcdF8FavQsgU&sig=AHIEtbTyKLNrrszOUdfvQJ96yralls4MYQ

Deneb

Leereni,

I apologise if my post offended you. You caught me in a Victor Meldrew moment which had been brought on by an email I had just opened on myt work PDA entitled "Identity Sort" :eek: and then I read the rather sensationalistic title of your post.

Please take the time to read the TVPol Fed link that I posted. Although you say you haven't the time to go searching the internet it took me less than 10 seconds to find after typing "New Police Pension" into Google, which I suspect was less time than it took you to compose your original post.

Anyway, if you read it you will see that what is being proposed included a protection of your accrued pension rights under the existing scheme up to the date of any change, and for officers with less than 10 years to their current retirement age, the likelihood that there will be no change at all to their existing pension entitlement, including the age at which they will be able to retire.

Whilst the link I quoted outlines the current government proposals, which are subject to further negotiation, having been through several attacks on police pay and conditions during my own service I think it will be quite likely that what eventually materialises will be watered down to some extent when both sides to the discussions have negotiated and made some concessions.

I am not for one minute suggesting that many officers will not be adversely affected, but it is by no means correct to assert that the pension is being "scrapped".

You say in your post above that perhaps other pension schemes should change to become as good as other posters claim the police scheme to be. Unfortunately in the current climate all pensions are under attack. My wife has to endure changes to her NHS pension. I currently subscribe to the LGPS and will have to make higher contributions when the new scheme is introduced, for a pension that will not be payable for several years later than the current scheme. The new LGPS scheme now agreed however is not nearly as bad as the doom-mongers were predicting when changes were first intimated.

Whilst I sympathise with your position, particularly as an ex police officer, the fact is that many other workers are also suffering from similar changes, and the police pension when all is done and dusted will still in all likelihood be far better than many other schemes out there.

As to why an arrangement made when you joined should be changed: perhaps it shouldn't, but again as an ex officer who retired after 35 years service I can tell you that it will not be the first time that has happened in respect of pay and conditions, and is unlikely to be the last. It's life I'm afraid.

Buzby

Let's not forget the Fire Service, which, lke the police, provides for retirement at 50. Which some of us can only dream about.

leereni

Ok thanks again for the comments. My previous comments I had made from my phone and wanted to get home so that I could write a more detailed reply.

Firstly to the chap who stated we get 2/3 our pay at 50. This isn't everyone. I personally will get 1/2 pay when I retire and as I joined slightly later than others I will not get that as I won't have accrued enough in the pension. Anyway, I'm not complaining with that in the slightest.

Deneb.... Thanks for the reply re. this morning. I was a little disappointed to read the comments. My OH also works in the private sector and I am fully aware of the types of things they have to put with. As a serving officer I fully appreciate the need to look at both sides of the story and therefore it's going to be a bit of give and take as you said. I expected that as I think do my colleagues. Please bare in mind our pay has been frozen for 2 years, double time has gone and career progression is virtually out the window for the foreseeable future. They are also looking are changing the travel arrangements we have regarding trains. But..... Before you all go on the attack I have no problem in changing and tightening on privileges. I just wish there would be more flexibility when it comes to the pensions and all pensions in general.

atush

But what if it's scrapped in 2012 and we are forced to take out s private option. Would it still be that good?

Nonsense, they can't change it w/o advance notice.

and even if a change was planned, which it isn't, then any years already bought would go forwards on the same terms.

So, the answer is to carry on with the pension, and if you want to invest in property to retire earlier- save outside your pension.

Crazyangel

For anyone who is interested, it may be worth looking at this Police Pension petition on the government website. It needs 100,000 signatures before 11/11/12, and is currently at around 71,000:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22321