About to check out of a house with no inventory - who's liable?

adamdynamic

Hey,

A year ago a friend, my girlfriend and I moved into a rented house. The lease is up at the end of August and we're moving out.

The problem is this: When we moved into the house, no inventory was performed by the landlord.

I moved down slightly after my friend and girlfriend so I assumed one had been done. We've looked after the flat but there is damage that was there when we moved in and the landlord has a history of being unreliable, never returning calls etc (and in fact, never bothered to show up and do an inventory).

Can anyone give any guidance one where liability might lie here for any damage? i.e. is it the landlord's responsibility to prove (with an inventory or otherwise) that the property was in a certain condition when tennants moved in? Or do we have to 'prove' that we haven't caused any of the damage?

I realise that getting the inventory done in the first place would have been the best idea, not much I can do about that now though :S Any advice on this would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Adam

ACon

I had this issue in my last house. It was through an agency but the landlord took over, and when we moved in, no inventory. It was my first agency house, Id previously been with same landlord since I was 17 and never even knew about inventories back then...

After we moved out they retained our deposit, and they wrote to the agency with their "photo evidence" which was utter rubbish. The agency dealt with me whilst I disputed it, and although they tried to settle with 50% I told them without an inventory they don't have a leg to stand on and I will take it further. They backed down within minutes and a phonecall confirmed we'd get our full deposit back, we received it a week later.

picklepick

Are you in England or Wales?

Has your deposit been protected in a scheme and have you been provided details of which scheme?

G_M

adamdynamic wrote: »

is it the landlord's responsibility to prove (with an inventory or otherwise) that the property was in a certain condition when tennants moved in?
Yes
Or do we have to 'prove' that we haven't caused any of the damage?
No

Adam

Plus answer picklepicks questions.

adamdynamic

picklepick wrote: »

Are you in England or Wales?

Has your deposit been protected in a scheme and have you been provided details of which scheme?

We live in England (London) and the Contract has details of our tenancy deposit - it's being held with 'www.mydeposits.co.uk' - there is a membership ID on the contract but when I go to the website I can't seem to find our details (it doesn't appear to let you search by ID number, just surname and when you paid the deposit, though I can't seem to find our details that way either?)

Has anyone any tips in how to play it with the landlord? If he starts claiming we've wrecked the house, even with our money (hopefully) protected by the government it's not clear what we can do? Should we be doing anything ahead of surrendering the keys back?

Thanks again for your help on this!

Adam

G_M

You need to check with each of the 3 deposit schemes if your deposit is registered.

If it is, and there is a dispute about damage, you use their arbitration process.

If it is not, you sue the LL for up to 3 times the deposit for non-registration.

Zorz_2

adamdynamic wrote: »

We live in England (London) and the Contract has details of our tenancy deposit - it's being held with 'www.mydeposits.co.uk' - there is a membership ID on the contract but when I go to the website I can't seem to find our details (it doesn't appear to let you search by ID number, just surname and when you paid the deposit, though I can't seem to find our details that way either?)

Mydeposits is insurance based, so your landlord has the money. He should have payed to Mydeposits a premium to protect your deposit. Your LL's membership ID is irrelevant, it only shows that he/she is a member and not that your particular deposit is protected.

I assume you already searched here:
http://www.mydeposits.co.uk/tenants/get-started/check-your-deposit

judging from what you wrote. Bear in mind of the month the deposit was protected. Say, you moved in and payed the deposit at the end of last August, the LL may have protected the deposit a few days later, in September (still within the legal deadline). So if you are unsure, just search twice (with both months) at the website.

Finally, after the LL protected your deposit, he should have sent you a "Deposit Protection Certificate" with the prescribed information (names, dates, addresses, etc) and some informational leaflet. This is a legal requirment too, so if the didn't do so, he is liable.

Forgot to say, that the lack of check-in inventory is a problem, but for the LL. Not for you, as the burden of proof lies to them to show that you caused damage to the property.

jjlandlord

G_M wrote: »

If it is not, you sue the LL for up to 3 times the deposit for non-registration.

This was mentioned before: afaik sueing for the penalty is not a simple money claim and will not be assigned to small claim track so it will be a longer and more costly process, involving solicitors (so probably thousands of pounds of upfront legal costs).
So while this may be a good bargaining threat, at the end the easier options for a tenant whose deposit has not been protected are:
1. If planned in advance to withhold the last rent payment(s) up to the amount paid as deposit.
2. Or, if the landlord refuses to pay the deposit back to sue for only the deposit, which will be a money claim usually assigned to fast track.

Here it seems OP can lo longer go for (1), but (2) should be relatively simple especially if there is no initial inventory/schedule of condition.

Edit: replaced 'fast track' by 'small claim track'

Judith_W

Just to confirm with no dual signed inventory on checking in and checking out, there is nothing they can do to prove any damage is your fault.

adamdynamic

Hey,

Thanks for all your helpful responses!

My girlfriend has phoned the deposit company this morning and they don't have any record of a deposit for the address we're living in (we tried all 3 surnames in the house for the month we moved in and the month after, they also gave us 2 other companies that deal with deposits and there are no records of us there either).

It's too late to withhold rent unfortunately (though that would only partially cover it anyway), looks like this might take a 'legal route' so I'm going to contact Citizens Advice this morning and get their input.

Even if I take legal action with my landlord, what are the chances that I'll actually get anything back? i.e. How much enforecement actually goes into reclaiming deposits in situations like this?

Thanks again for your help, really glad I asked here!

Adam

jjlandlord

adamdynamic wrote: »

Even if I take legal action with my landlord, what are the chances that I'll actually get anything back? i.e. How much enforecement actually goes into reclaiming deposits in situations like this?

Should you go that route and win, it will be a matter of recovering a debt, with the usual enforcement procedures for CCJs.
I hear that transferring the judgement to the high court in order to use high court enforcement officers can be quite effective (they have the right to immediately seize the debtor's assets after all...)