Energy efficiency of Baxi Backboiler

mumoftwo85

Sorry for long post!

After having huge problems with our energy supplier (I won't go into detail, that's another thread!) we've discovered problems with our gas efficiency.

We moved into our new house last year, it is a 3 bed semi. We have only just discovered how much gas we are using. Our annual bill for electricity is around £200, and for gas it it over £900! I almost died when this came to light. We consider ourselves to be pretty energy efficient, and havent used the central heating since feb/ march (and even then it was minimal as we work all day and have it on timer). Our cooker is also electric, washing machiene is cold fill, so the only thing we are currently using using hot water for are a bath in the morning, evening and washing up. Weve enven had cavity wall insulation done back in jan.

As a result, we've started looking into how energy efficient our home is...

We have the old Baxi Back boiler behind the living room fire place. There is a timer attached to this, and we tend to switch the water heating on 5am-9am and 4pm-9pm (basically, when we will need the water!). The boiler is connected to a huge water tank in the attic.
We have been told that if it's not broke then dont replace as the old boilers are highly reliable. And if truth be told, I doubt we could afford to replace it with a modern boiler.

I would really appreciate any advice or opinions in these types of back boilers and their efficiency. Is there anything we can do to the exising boiler to make it more efficient? Do you think its more energy efficient to be switiching the water heating on and off (as we currently are), or do you think this may be a false economy as we are allowing the water to cool between uses??

Also, advice on the cheapest and best ways to replace the boiler would also be a great help.

Sorry for length of post, just wanted to provide as much detail as possible and am desperate to stop these sky high bills!

Many thanks in advance:D

oldskoo1

If you look at it purely from a money saving exercise it would take you a very long time to recoup the cost of a new boiler in increased efficiency. Plus you need to factor in that modern condensing boilers are best having a yearly service to prevent the pipes from corroding or so i've been told by my gas fitter friend.

Also that boilers with fans that are serviced can actually lead to fan failure by taking the front off the panel. It's a mine field.

Anyway, hate to break it to you but £900 a year on gas is actually pretty average. Perhaps a touch high for your property but all depends on the loft / wall insulation and draft exclusion.

Immediately i noticed your timings. I think these are way too high. For example my 4 bed detached with 4 people in it; Our hot water comes on for 15mins in the morning and 30 mins at night (could be 1 hour). We have never run out of hot water. In fact just recently we had a boiler safety check and the gas man turned off our timer. It wasn't until 2 days later we noticed the lack of hot water and this was after several showers.

If you have baths then you might need longer.

Check the thermostat on the hot water tank and make sure it's super insulated. We have it set to the lowest safe temp which i think is 55c that kills Legionnaires disease.

The biggest drain is obviously winter gas usage. Only you can determine the right level of comfort v cost. For us, we have a well insulated house with balanced radiators and draft exclusion and we run the central heating 24/7 on low... around 18c and it's always warm enough.

The best way to determine better efficiency is to do a meter reading over 2 or 3 days. See how many units you have used, make a change, like your hot water timings and run another 3 day test. If you do this with central heating in winter you have to ensure the outside temperature is roughly the same for each test.

The other things to consider are, make sure you boiler is set to maximum heat output. I read that running your boiler on max so it heats up the rads or water quickly and turns off sooner is more efficient than a medium setting that uses less gas but takes longer to achieve the same thing. I haven't tested this but always assumed it.

Then the biggest change can be going to a comparison site, keying in your gas and elec consumption and seeing if you switched you would save.

I'm on co-op as i just find them easy to deal with. Not the cheapest but almost on average.

mumoftwo85

Wow, I hadn't realised that £900 was average. For us it has always been much lower as we've always rented tiny 2 bed town houses etc before buying this house. Infact one point we had one of those pay as you go key meter things, and we always found that great (I believe theyre expensive, so we must have used very little energy!!)

Sorry to sound very blonde, but the hot thermostat will be behind the fire place wont it?! I havent a clue what I am doing, but trying to learn very quickly.

Unfortunately our hot water doesnt seem to last as long as yours when switched off. I wonder if this is to do with insulation on the tank? Or maybe its just becuse of the type of boiler we have.

Good idea with the meter readings, i will do an experiment to find out!

oldskoo1

The hot water thermostat would be on the hot water cylinder. A little dial normally near the bottom and it tells the boiler when to switch off.

Insulation jackets are very cheap from wickes or b&q and we just place old or spare duvets and pillows around the tank too for added insulation.

It all depends on your house. Older character properties do leak a lot more heat. Admittedly our 15 year old 4 bed detached with all the efficiency measures does only consume £70 a month average over the year. This covers gas and elec and works out to £840 a year. Now in the summer we only use about £24 in gas and £22 in elec. In the winter months this climbs drastically.

Keep in mind the house is fairly new so the energy consumption would differ greatly to older properties.

Fifer73

Hiya
I am also in a similar position to you
I also have the old baxi boiler , with the timer unit in the kitchen being a potterton EP2000

I only put water on for 30 mins in morning and 2 hours at night if i really want a bath, When it gets really cold, heating on which also has to bring water on but then its 1 hour in morning, and 2-3 hours at night if it is really cold

I tend to shower more due to less water etc.

I was told my fire is at least 15 years old, and the boiler is around 30 years old , the gas men that service my baxi every year, said unless it breaks dont change it as a new boiler would be lucky to last 5-7 years depending on model etc along with the cost of the install to start with

On my fire when you remove the little section at the bottom ( like air vents at the base of fire ) on mine when i look through there is a dial set low 1-4 high, I always have this set at low, i have turned it up if i wanted the hot water slightly quicker but as a rule i always have this set on low.

misterbarlow

Basically same as the other replies..

We have a Baxi Bermuda back boiler too..
It was there when we moved into the house in 07 and my brother in law (who is a plumber) said leave it there til it packs in, its probably 30+years old and may be only 40-50% efficient (compared to 80-90% for modern boilers) but it will probably last forever....
but he said the cost of a decent new one and replumbing it in a new position etc when offset against any fuel savings would take many years to pay off, so just leave it there...

as stated by others i also think your times are quite long..
we have our water on from 7am to 7.30 in the morning, and again 5-6pm for washing up and the kids bath (they hate the shower)..
As long as the tank is well lagged the water stays hot for hours..

As for heating in the winter, the first year we moved in we had the dial on the front on about 3 (goes from off, low, then 1-5) and we turned it on and off as needed, and found it got very hot, turned it off, few hours later went cold, turned it back on, etc etc and we had a large bill the following spring....

the following winter we turned the dial on the front of the boiler right down to low, and pretty much left it on all day when its very cold ticking over, and our bill went down loads....
we have good insulation in the attic and cavity, all installed before we moved in, which helps...

my gas DD is now £60 and I am usually a little in credit every year, so around £720 for a 3 bedroom with 2adults/2kids seems average for me......

mumoftwo85

Fifer73 wrote: »

Hiya
I am also in a similar position to you
I also have the old baxi boiler , with the timer unit in the kitchen being a potterton EP2000

I only put water on for 30 mins in morning and 2 hours at night if i really want a bath, When it gets really cold, heating on which also has to bring water on but then its 1 hour in morning, and 2-3 hours at night if it is really cold

I tend to shower more due to less water etc.

I was told my fire is at least 15 years old, and the boiler is around 30 years old , the gas men that service my baxi every year, said unless it breaks dont change it as a new boiler would be lucky to last 5-7 years depending on model etc along with the cost of the install to start with

On my fire when you remove the little section at the bottom ( like air vents at the base of fire ) on mine when i look through there is a dial set low 1-4 high, I always have this set at low, i have turned it up if i wanted the hot water slightly quicker but as a rule i always have this set on low.

Yes ours also has this dial and we keep it set on low.

In answer to oldskoo1's post, our house was built in the 1960s and having lived in a small new build, there's a significant difference as you say.

I will certainly by trying to set the timer differently to see if I can make the hot water go a bit further, particularly in summer months. Thanks for the advice.

birdinhand

I have a baxi bermuda back boiler with an LFE gas fire wich was fitted in 1982 in the house I bought 4 years ago. When I first bought the house and moved in I thought like many others that I would replace the boiler with a new combi. We then had one of the worst winters that I can remember and I am 52! Snow, arctic temperatures but the the Baxi boiler soldiered on valiantly keeping the house lovely and warm whilst many of my neighbours shivered with their new combi boilers packing in due to frozen condensate pipes. It was then that I decided if it aint broke dont fix it. It doesnt matter how efficient a boiler is if it doesnt work in the winter when you need it most its useless. It will take a very very long time to get the money back on a new boiler if ever as they have a much shorter life span than the baxi based on the better efficency so dont be conned by that one. I have had inline electric water heaters 7.3 kw made by Dafi dafi.co.uk fitted in the kitchen and bathroom .The one in the bathroom will fill the bath with hot water .They only heat the water you use. That means I dont need the boiler to have hot water in the summer that saves a huge amount on the gas bill. They are plumbed in with valves so that in the winter I can isolate them and switch to use the hot water in the tank from the back boiler when the heating/water is on. I now have the best of both worlds a reliable boiler for the winter and super efficient inline water heaters for the summer when I switch off ( including the pilot light ) the baxi system till the winter.

C_Mababejive

Agreed..your bills are pretty average and some would say,toward the lower sector.

My suggestions for you...

Go check that tank. Does it have sprayed on foam insulation?

Go get yourself an old duvet or get one from a friend whos chucking one out (moneysaving ) Wrap it around that tank and secure it with string.

Make sure all the pipes to it,especially the hot ones,are insulated.

Buy a thermal vest..long sleeved.