whose responsibility?

poet123

All large buildings have refuge points where those who are disabled in any way are designated to wait. The first Fire Officer on scene organises their evacuation.

mildred1978

poet123 wrote: »

All large buildings have refuge points where those who are disabled in any way are designated to wait. The first Fire Officer on scene organises their evacuation.

And the definition of a large building is.....?

We had a couple of hundred staff working across 5 floors in a grade 1 listed building. There were often classes over H&S. For example, the balustrade down the only flight of stairs was too low to meet H&S criteria, but English Heritage refused permission to replace it. As the fine from EH would have been several times that of H&S, EH won that argument.

We had a number of disabled staff who, when the 1 lift was out of action for 8 weeks one summer, could not get to their desks. At which point arrangements were made for them to work from the ground floor. It worked so well they never moved back once the works were completed.

Which department do you work for, OP?

marybelle01

To be honest, between you and the employer, I think you're as bad as each other. What is to stop you, first thing in the morning at work, picking up the phone and ringing AtW? Or at lunch time? Or somewhere in the morning? Or sometime in the afternoon? Why do you have to leave it until you get home? Yes, they could pick up the phone and make an appointment, and they are being bloodyminded in refusing to do so. So could you and so are you. What does it matter whose responsibility it is - you could spend longer arguing with them about responsibilities than it will take to just do it.

poet123

The Refuge points are simply the landings, or the closest safest point to there, if you have stairs, you have landings.

mildred1978

poet123 wrote: »

The Refuge points are simply the landings, or the closest safest point to there, if you have stairs, you have landings.

Our staircase was a grand one - very wide - and it spiralled up the centre of the building. The landing on each floor was part of the staircase, with the doors to the rooms off those. Had there been a fire, the last place you'd want to be is on the landings which a) weren't big enough and b) would probably have been right in the middle of the resulting 'chimney' of smoke.

poet123

mildred1978 wrote: »

Our staircase was a grand one - very wide - and it spiralled up the centre of the building. The landing on each floor was part of the staircase, with the doors to the rooms off those. Had there been a fire, the last place you'd want to be is on the landings which a) weren't big enough and b) would probably have been right in the middle of the resulting 'chimney' of smoke.

I can only tell you what the advice is from the Fire Service and it is as I have stated. In special individual cases the Fire Officer would advise accordingly, but that is the normal policy.

jobbingmusician

I have every sympathy with your disability (I am married to someone who is disabled, so do know about wheelchair problems, etc.)

However, you say that you think your employer wants you to go to ATW so that they will get a grant towards your equipment. Well, why the hell shouldn't they? If you are seriously saying you won't go to ATW because YOU didn't find them helpful last time, irrespective of the fact that they are also there to help the employer, I don't think much of your chances at any subsequent tribunal.......

However, of COURSE any interaction with ATW should be in work time, not in your own time. Which also means that your argument about it being stressful for you falls to the ground, I'm afraid - your liaison with them then becomes part of your job. And I can't particularly see any benefit to either you or the employer in the employer contacting them, rather than you. If the employer contacts them it simply adds an extra level of communication - YOU can talk to them direct about what YOUR needs are.

Having said all that, I hope you have a helpful and constructive dialogue with them this time which solves the problem. And yes, it might be helpful to involve the Union and the local fire people

dori2o

antonic wrote: »

My plan of action would be :

1) Get your union involved and make them aware of them situation
2) Do everything that management want you to do, even if you dont want to, because if it gets to the stage where they are considering dismissal on capability grounds you can argue that you have done everything they wanted and what more could you do ?.
3) Apply for D(isability) A(djustment) L(eave) DAL as you cant evacuate the building safely even during a drill, let alone a real fire.

(A wheelchair bound friend of mine, who used to work in a building that is now closing & has moved to a building down the road from you, was in the same position when they were told that they could not use the lifts to go from 1st floor to Ground floor in the event of a fire drill (or proper fire), it took our employer approx 6 months to order and pay for an evac chair, in that time they were off on DAL as the employer wasnt providing a safe working place)

Try the above and let us know what happens.

They wont allow DAL as they have found me a desk on the ground floor and have given me an ongoing task to do, so in their eyes they have fulfilled the 'reasonable adjustment' part albeit a temporary measure.

phill99 wrote: »

You won't like this but the advice from the fire officer will be that any people who cannot get down th stairs safely including disabled people and pregnant ladies ate to go into a 'fire safe' area which in your case will be the fire stair well (a fire stair well is designed to be resistant to fire for a number of hours) and await rescue from the fire brigade. They Are expe ted to be on site within 8 minutes.

You need to remember that you being assisted down the stairs on an evac chair will holdup many more people and risk the lives of other people.

Stay put in the fire stair and you will be a lot safer than being taken down in an evac chair.

I have been told about this before, and actually stated that in the event of a fire I wouold stay at the top of the stairwell, which our fire officer said had a 2hour safety window. However, the senior manager of our centre stated that it is not acceptable to stay in the stairwell and she wouldn't allow it.

marybelle01 wrote: »

To be honest, between you and the employer, I think you're as bad as each other. What is to stop you, first thing in the morning at work, picking up the phone and ringing AtW? Or at lunch time? Or somewhere in the morning? Or sometime in the afternoon? Why do you have to leave it until you get home? Yes, they could pick up the phone and make an appointment, and they are being bloodyminded in refusing to do so. So could you and so are you. What does it matter whose responsibility it is - you could spend longer arguing with them about responsibilities than it will take to just do it.

I have not refused to contact ATW, and this morning I have done so, they are sending a form for me to fill in and sign.

However, my last experience, where I had to get numerous quotes off taxi firms, had to send varios bus timetables and train timetables in, had to get a letter from Manchester Victoria station about disabled access, a letter from my GP and specialist (which cost me money) put me off using them again as after all that work I did, they said they couldn't help me.

But that is not the point. The question I was asking is, Is it my responsibility as the disabled person to be doing all the running around on behalf of my employer?

poet123

If the Senior Manager disputes the advice of the Fire Officer then it is up to them to sort it out, not you.

marybelle01

dori2o wrote: »

The question I was asking is, Is it my responsibility as the disabled person to be doing all the running around on behalf of my employer?

You have not been asked to do "all the running around". You have been asked to make a phone call. It's your disability and you know what the issues are. Would you prefer that someone who isn't disabled makes the phone call and tells them about your disability and your problems at work? For goodness sake, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. It's a phone call, not a sponsored trek in the Himalayas.