can any sparkies advise ?

muckybutt

vaio wrote: »

Flex can be part of fixed wiring but in any event if you understand why loop tests are done then I'm sure if you think about it you will realise why the test needs to be done at the furthest point to ensure the safety of your customers whether that is spur/flex or appliance.

On immersion heaters, apart from anything else you need to pop the top off the element connection point anyway and it's much easier to to clip test leads onto the posts in there than it is faffing about in the back of a spur

I know exactly where you are coming from re testing at the furthest point, but testing down the flex from a fixed point is wrong, you could say plugging a 50M extension lead into a plug would be the furthest point which in effect is what you are saying re the pump situation, that added length of cable could well easily put you over the required Zs for the size of breaker / fuse. But testing down the extension / flex is not correct.

You only do earth loop readings from the furthest fixed outlet / connection point that is part of the installation. Technically speaking even testing from the terminals from the immersion heater is wrong as that is beyond the connection point and is not considered part of the installation.

Ive no idea why you have been told to test the way you are doing but it certainly does not go by what you are taught when you do your 2391 and is certainly the wrong way of doing it.
Even when I was an apprentice we were taught you only test the fixed wiring upto the connection point.

DVardysShadow

muckybutt wrote: »

I know exactly where you are coming from re testing at the furthest point

Without getting the books out, for me this question hinges on the definition of 'Installation'. I would see the wiring up to the Immersion heater as part of the installation - whereas the flex is not. The difficult one is a free standing cooker - on a new house, the cable from the connection point will not be available at the time of testing - and yu don't even have a fuse at the connection point to use to absolve your conscience.

muckybutt

DVardysShadow wrote: »

for me this question hinges on the definition of 'Installation'. I would see the wiring up to the Immersion heater as part of the installation - whereas the flex is not.

Thats how I see Vaio's post earlier, which is what ive been trying to make clear to him.

Personally the free standing cooker, I would test as far as the connection point and no further.

keystone

Balders

Fit a fuse and get on with life.

Cheers

vaio

muckybutt wrote: »

I know exactly where you are coming from re testing at the furthest point, but testing down the flex from a fixed point is wrong, you could say plugging a 50M extension lead into a plug would be the furthest point which in effect is what you are saying re the pump situation, that added length of cable could well easily put you over the required Zs for the size of breaker / fuse. But testing down the extension / flex is not correct.

You only do earth loop readings from the furthest fixed outlet / connection point that is part of the installation. Technically speaking even testing from the terminals from the immersion heater is wrong as that is beyond the connection point and is not considered part of the installation.

Ive no idea why you have been told to test the way you are doing but it certainly does not go by what you are taught when you do your 2391 and is certainly the wrong way of doing it.
Even when I was an apprentice we were taught you only test the fixed wiring upto the connection point.

I think you should have been taught to test the "installation" (7671 definition "An assembly of associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated characteristics to fulfil specific purposes.") which includes the "equipment" (7671 definition "Any item for such purposes as generation, conversion, transmission, distribution or utilisation of electrical energy, such as machines, transformers, apparatus, measuring instruments, protective devices, wiring systems, accessories, appliances and luminaires.")

When we walk away from a pump station we KNOW that a P-E fault in the pump (connected via flex) WILL take out the upstream breaker because we have tested it.

When you walk away from a domestic job you KNOW that a fault in a pendant fitting (connected via flex) WILL take out the upstream breaker because you have tested it but you don't KNOW that a fault in an immersion heater (connected via flex and arguably more fixed than a pendant fitting) will take out the upstream fuse/breaker because you have only tested as far as the spur.

Just seems wrong to me.

Do you even check that the PE connection is made in the immersion head whilst you've got the cover off?

muckybutt

What ever!

vaio

muckybutt wrote: »

What ever!

Excellent well reasoned response :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Guess that's the difference between house bashers and [STRIKE]real[/STRIKE] industrial electricians

muckybutt

vaio wrote: »

Excellent well reasoned response :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Guess that's the difference between house bashers and [STRIKE]real[/STRIKE] industrial electricians

Who said anything about house bashers ! I certainly aint one and dont confess to being one.

anotherbaldrick

keystone wrote: »

Balders

Fit a fuse and get on with life.

Cheers

This was next doors property. On mine I found that one double 13amp outlet did not work because it had never been wired into the board and the cylinder stat had never been wired in. My initial question was to try and gauge wether the systems had been tested at all or were the issued test certificates falsifications.

Ectophile

anotherbaldrick wrote: »

This was next doors property. On mine I found that one double 13amp outlet did not work because it had never been wired into the board and the cylinder stat had never been wired in. My initial question was to try and gauge wether the systems had been tested at all or were the issued test certificates falsifications.

Let's face it, if it's a big house basher, there's always the possibility that they tested the first house, then got a trainee to make copies of the certificate for each of the other houses. It saves a lot of time doing it that way!