Parking problems on private land

cleeside

I've been a long time lurker on the moneysavingexpert forum but I am now sticking my head above the parapet to ask a few questions about parking enforcement. I am not a troll or a PPC astroturfer so please be gentle with me.

I have a small business premises on the edge of the town centre with six car parking spaces, which me and my colleagues use to park our cars and vans. It is becoming an increasing problem that unauthorised vehicles are parking in these spaces, sometimes for just a few minutes or sometimes many hours. This is causing us inconvenience but also plenty of aggravation. Fencing the whole area off and putting a gate in would be difficult because of the physical layout, local authority consent and other parties right of access as well as being expensive.

I’m aware that the private car park enforcement industry is a contentious issue and sites like this one are giving it a hard time and rightly so in many cases. And the consensus on here seems to be don’t pay and completely ignore the penalty notice. However I believe there must be some sanction that land owners can use to stop people parking their cars without permission. This militancy on both sides is making difficult for genuine and honest people to run businesses. So my question is how can I legitimately and ethically stop cars parking on my land. I don’t want to make money out of car parking, I don’t want confrontations with people, I just want to be able to park unhindered on my property whenever I choose.

Thanks
D


(If you do work for a PPC don’t bother replying or trying to message me touting for business, I am as capable as the next man of finding your companies on the internet if I wanted to)

muckybutt

I can see where you are coming from and can understand just how annoying this is for you and your fellow work collegues.

I would go down the route of installing individual parking bollards that way protecting individual spaces when they are unoccupied.

The parking tickets as you are aware are not worth the paper they are printed on to be honest - one way you could patrol it yourself would be to slap a sticker on the car - nice sticky one would do nicely - pointing out it is your land and that it is for your use only, give warning that the number plate will be written down and if the car is seen parked there again you will pursue for damages in the small claims court.

Because you are the landowner you and only you can pursue for damages / loss, so something like £25 should cover the loss side of things plus court costs, you could keep it or save it up over the year and donate to charity.

Choice would be yours but I would go for the individual parking posts, less hassle and no confronation.

devonlad

Could you put up your own signs? But i was thinking the bollads halfords do some that i think you can install yourself

peter_the_piper

I agree that bollards are the best solution but you should ask your local planning dept to confirm they have no problems with bollards without planning permission. No two councils are the same.

cleeside

Thanks for the suggestions.

I did think of bollards but was put off a little by the cost but more so because I don't know if there are any public liability issues. Pedestrians tend to cut across the parking area as it saves them a few yards. The fold down type do seem like a bit of trip hazard when folded and when raised seem about knacker height for the blokes leaving the nearby pub at closing time.:)

May be a revamp of the signage and some firm but polite stickers as suggested is the way to go. I don't really want to threaten people with court, partly because I live in a relatively small town where every seems to be someone you knows cousin and because a lot of people are now seeing it as an empty threat.

I just feel that private parking law needs to be reformed to stop the cowboy ticketers but also to get people to park considerately.

HO87

cleeside wrote: »

I just feel that private parking law needs to be reformed to stop the cowboy ticketers but also to get people to park considerately.

You could start by directing your understandable frustration at the government who continue to systematically enforce an unchanged transport policy originally brought in by NuLabour. This restricts the number of car park spaces not to a reasonable number of those who might be expected to use the facilities but to a reasonable number minus 30% (or whatever the percentage is). This is done entirely cynically with a view to forcing people out of their cars.

Quite what they are supposed to use is not explained. In one debate I had with a completely London-centric MP a while ago he suggested that there was always public transport. When I pointed out that the nearest bus stop was over a mile away with a two-hourly service, and there was no railway, underground or tram alternative he lost interest and wandered off.

The BPA has manoeuvred itself into a position where its members are seen as constructive contributors to this transport policy - so don't expect private ticketing companies to disappear any time soon.

cleeside

HO87 wrote: »

The BPA has manoeuvred itself into a position where its members are seen as constructive contributors to this transport policy - so don't expect private ticketing companies to disappear any time soon.

I wasn't meaning to say that all PPC companies are cowboys, I would view some of their activities as legitimate and neccessary. I meant the type of company whose sole aim is extracting money from people with the thinnest of reasons and who apply no common sense or proportion.

I do however think that , for example, if someone parks in a supermarket carpark that is clearly signed as being for customers only and limited to 2 hours and then they leave the car there all day they deserve to be charged a reasonable fine and they shouldn't just be able to totally ignore the consequences.

I don't really agree with your comment about government policy, land is a finite resource and we should encourage people to think about alternatives to driving. (Which are not always available to everyone i agree.) I suppose rationing parking is part of this.

LincolnshireYokel

muckybutt wrote: »

I can see where you are coming from and can understand just how annoying this is for you and your fellow work collegues.

I would go down the route of installing individual parking bollards that way protecting individual spaces when they are unoccupied.

The parking tickets as you are aware are not worth the paper they are printed on to be honest - one way you could patrol it yourself would be to slap a sticker on the car - nice sticky one would do nicely - pointing out it is your land and that it is for your use only, give warning that the number plate will be written down and if the car is seen parked there again you will pursue for damages in the small claims court.

Because you are the landowner you and only you can pursue for damages / loss, so something like £25 should cover the loss side of things plus court costs, you could keep it or save it up over the year and donate to charity.

Choice would be yours but I would go for the individual parking posts, less hassle and no confronation.

The nub of this is that you need to control who parks there, yourself. If you hand control of this over to a third party, such as a PPC, they will then make money at the expense of your reputation and by annoying your legitimate customers, because in the end, there there to make money, and your business come second. They will make money by targetting anyone, be they legit customers or trespasser, and they will not differentiate, and that will be to your cost.

Locking posts is one way.

note_2

agree with the OP.

recently went on holiday and paid for a permit to park outside a holiday flat, yet we had people parking outside whilst admiring views, or simply ignoring the fact it was residents parking and taking the risk.

now if they get fined £60 then good, but that doesnt help me that i have to park 5 minutes walk away and pay £4 for the privelidge.

the above situation is completely different to that of a multi storey or supermarket car park as i'm sure you'd all agree.

RuthnJasper

Bollards are a good idea - but instead of several, you could have just one at the main entrance/exit - a retractable bollard or gate to which only employees have a key (with a key at reception for legitimate visitors). Probably best to check with the council before installing though, as someone has already suggested above.

I can understand the frustration - it's unfair on you and your employees, as well as potentially problematic; what would happen, for example, if one of your staff got a call to say his wife had gone into labour, or their elderly parent had had a fall (or vice-versa!) and they couldn't leave because some muppet had boxed-in their car and gone off into town for the day?

This is a perennial problem at one of the sites I look after at work - the car park is close to the local station, so it gets full of commuters' cars, leaving no room for legitimate site users. Bollards and notes on cars have helped a bit, but it's not a regularly-staffed site, so hard to enforce. The day will inevitable come when we need to get a fire engine down there, I daresay, and then the commuters will get some form of comeuppance for their illegal and selfish parking - but it's still annoying.

Best wishes OP. x

muckybutt

cleeside wrote: »

Pedestrians tend to cut across the parking area as it saves them a few yards. The fold down type do seem like a bit of trip hazard when folded and when raised seem about knacker height for the blokes leaving the nearby pub at closing time. :rotfl::rotfl::T

Go for the recessed bollards thus avoiding trip hazards such as
http://www.shelterstore.co.uk/prod_name/ss_economy_telescopic_post.aspx
http://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/bollards-c1022/parking-telescopic-retractable-bollards-c1024/heavy-duty-telescopic-post-fast-delivery-p1249
http://www.parkingposts4u.co.uk/Products.aspx?c=11&p=12

There are loads to choose from, perhaps another way would be to place several normal non retractable bollards around the perimeter of your car park - linked with chain - then two retractable bollards on the entrance ?

I am not linked in any way to the above sites btw - reference purposes only.