Why oh why do i buy on eBay?

marking_bad

(stole a thread title there )

I buy collectible items, usually when i buy them new I have no problems, but the ones that say "mint" or "like new", over 50% end up having some kind of damage to them.

Then I have to go through all the processes to get my money back.

So frustrating, mainly because you can't get these items from shops as they are out of stock.

How well are buyers covered for items that are sold as "like new" and have "mint" in the description but come with some damage (however minor). What are the scams the seller can pull in these situations (such as claiming to have not received the returning item, so send recorded I presume).

Also, is it possible to offer a partial refund (to help the buyer pay for return postage) and then a full refund once the item has been returned?

Also, what is the law/how ebay operates, regarding who pays for returning items?

Crowqueen

There are not many successful scams a seller can pull - to be fair, if you send things back tracked and get past the twin hurdle of the recorded delivery signature lottery and a disreputable seller taking advantage of no proof of delivery, you are pretty much guaranteed a refund even if you are the one claiming the item is damaged but isn't.

The seller can challenge and/or appeal a decision but even on a successful appeal you still keep the money. The big danger I think is items that are not fit for purpose do not come under eBay's definition of SNAD - but that is relevant only with business sellers and you do have recourse e.g. to Trading Standards in that case.

The law is a bit vague as I understand it regarding private sellers. Business sellers must refund return postage, but only today there is someone over on the community boards claiming that because it is difficult to enforce she doesn't see why she should grant it to a buyer returning on a change of mind basis (this is return postage we're talking about but her terms are such that she is legally obliged to refund it - she doesn't make it clear that buyers are responsible for those costs). If it is anywhere it will be on the SOGA Hub - but unfortunately the OFT are missing a trick by giving no clear guide for private sellers as regards their legal obligations/for buyers buying privately. Private sellers are held to some sections of SOGA but not all.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome

The only item I've had problems with is a shirt which came stinking of smoke (in a jiffy bag so not the packaging problems), and various problems with knock-off electronic goods - I can get much better quality items for similar prices on Amazon so that is where I go now.

marking_bad

How about the seller damaging the item further than in the pictures sent pre-posting by the buyer?

marking_bad

What about the seller saying they just received an empty box back?

sam.4000

If ebay is that bad why do you buy things from it? If I were you stick to antiques shops/ fayres and carboots. I certainly would not buy off ebay if over 50% of the items were not what I had expected them to be.

Sellers are not out to do anyone, its a buyers world not sellers so calling sellers scammers seems very unfair.

As a buyer you have to return an item tracked to get a refund from a seller. They do not have to partially refund you to pay for postage. A good seller (private) may refund you your postage but ebay do not force sellers to pay for return postage so it is the sellers disgresion.

I buy thing from ebay that are not available from shops but I have had few very few problems.

Crowqueen

It's easier if you don't see eBay as a 'bargain-hunting' trip, but as something where you have to be very careful what you pick up.

I think I agree with Sam. Most people (on both sides of the equation) are honest. Those that aren't, from a buyer's POV, are easily stoppable unless they are denying you legal rights that eBay don't cover. Then you have recourse to the small claims court to try and sort things out - or Trading Standards in the case of business sellers.

Paypal and eBay have moved on an awful lot from the days when there were a lot of obstacles in the path of people buying. It is now weighted in favour of the buyer, and while the situation is not perfect - some sellers on eBay for some reason think they are entitled to do things which they wouldn't dream of doing in an offline shop or on an independent website - it is not at all bad.

I personally don't buy clothes from private sellers, or anything with moving parts. I buy most electronics on Amazon which takes buyer protection a lot more seriously.

I realise in your OP you are having problems with sellers misdescribing collectable items. That's a problem, as there is no competition for that kind of item other than sites which are potentially very bad for buyers and jury-rigged in favour of sellers in order to compete with eBay - which is a mirage because the buyer traffic is not generated without the revenue and tight protection of eBay, Amazon etc. However, perhaps bid with care and expecting there to be an issue - anticipate that perhaps the seller has 'over-described' something. So for 'mint condition' assume vg, etc.

That's the way to cope with eBay. If you know it is a minefield, switch to other sites for what you can, as I've done, and focus your purchasing right down on the sellers you think are going to give you less trouble. You might not end up with 'bargains', any more, but that is going to make sure your money is going to the right people for the right things, which is much more satisfactory in the long run.

I wish I could just go to eBay, pick something, bid on it, receive it, and move on. I've had happy times on Amazon with the 1-click button and my birthday money . However, that's just not the case. Mostly it's to do with hanging around boards where sellers say just exactly what they think of their buyers; as a seller I've learned some interesting things but the usefulness of some forums is coming more and more into question (not this one). But I very rarely buy anything other than collectable/academic items too - and I have to say I don't get a bad result.

wantsajob

I think some people genuinely cannot detect minor defects, and are not intentionally trying to rip people off. I guess when you go to an antique shop, you're paying for someone's skill and eye for detail. Some people aren't as OCD as the rest of us.

Crowqueen

wantsajob wrote: »

I think some people genuinely cannot detect minor defects, and are not intentionally trying to rip people off. I guess when you go to an antique shop, you're paying for someone's skill and eye for detail. Some people aren't as OCD as the rest of us.

I think the problem is that many people don't realise things have to be pristine and collectors want something in the condition that it was described as - and that that appraisal is going to be harsh.

I was talking to one seller on another board, who seemed quite adamant she had no responsibility to offer returns because her buyers were collectors who would know what they were getting! She had no idea why she was getting so many complaints, and why her item-as-described score was visibly slipping. Her items had 'sold as seen' on them etc. but to be fair she did have a lot of photographs - just not many that showed condition as opposed to the outline of the object. I bought a doll from her and when it came it was huge - I was expecting a barbie-size thing and it was easily twice that size - yet I got no impression of scale or measurements from her listings, which is why I stepped in to help.

I didn't mark her down as in other ways she wasn't being obnoxious - she generally had no clue as to what to expect from buyers or what they expected from sellers online. She did trot out the usual 'buyers should be responsible for what they buy and check it carefully' - to which the obvious reply was, well, they can't when you list things online, so you have to describe the items in detail to make up for the fact no-one can handle and inspect the actual item close-up.

I explained that collectors were more likely to be picky and that she had a responsibility, even as a private seller, to describe her items accurately, give measurements and dimensions and idea of scale, and give some close-up photographs of any damage.

I think she got the idea after a while.

The more education people can do of sellers the better. They are the ones in the position of responsibility - and crucially, they want the money and a successful sale, not a hard time wrangling with a buyer, so it is very much in people's interests to learn to describe properly.

marking_bad

Do you think a negative is the right thing to do, even if the seller offers a refund? I think it is, unless they offer to pay for return postage too, at which point a neutral should be the worst a buyer should leave.

I don't buy for a second the idea that sellers can't see their item isn't as they described it. They don't have to list it "like new" but they probably do so for a better sale price.