Tip about benefits and immigration status (and a rant about new tax change...)

mitziwaltz

It has come up here a couple of times, and it also frequently comes up on boards related to immigration, so it's worth posting. If you (or your spouse/other half) is an immigrant who does not yet have "indefinite leave to remain (in other words, if you only have "leave to remain" or "further leave to remain"--the two kinds of status given to Work Permit holders) do not even *think* of applying for Child Tax Credit, Working Tax Credit or any other benefit. The Home Office will refuse your application for ILR later on if you do, and you can then be refused work permit renewal/get deported. I have even run into benefit workers who do not know this and who have encouraged people to apply, and applications do slip through. It doesn't matter if someone misinformed you.
I know we are supposed to leave out policy here but... this is one of the reasons I was so hacked off about Gordon Brown's budget announcement about eliminating the 10 percent tax for low earners. Supposedly it "didn't matter" because anyone earning so little would have it made up by tax credits, right? Wrong--if you are an immigrant, like so many people working for low wages in this country (myself included until my new job!), it means the government is going to take a full 10 percent more of your earnings, and you will get NO benefits to make up the difference:mad: . This is an especially crappy thing to do to those people brought here to do jobs that UK citizens don't want--picking crops, gutting fish, cleaning, nasty construction jobs, elder care and so on. Many of these folks in my area aren't even receiving minimum wage, thanks to devious tricks by rotten employers... 10 percent extra on taxes are really going to hurt them.
It also occurs to me that UK citizens who have relied on tax credits to make up the difference between what they earn and what they need to actually survive on should also will be 10 percent down from this budget unless I misunderstand something abot how tax credits work...your tax credits would first go against tax owed, only after that was covered would you get any cash.

lewt

I dont think anyone is brought here to do the job's.- It's not like there's a bus that goes round dragging people here......They come of there own free will- maybe it's a way of toning down the ammount of people that want to come. i think it's quite right imigrants should no get tax credit's as they have not paid into it for long enough. and if there is a chance that they maybe leaving soon then fair enough i say.

welshcakes

mitziwaltz wrote: »

...This is an especially crappy thing to do to those people brought here to do jobs that UK citizens don't want...elder care and so on. Many of these folks in my area aren't even receiving minimum wage, thanks to devious tricks by rotten employers.

Could I just comment that caring for the vulnerable including the elderly, children and people with menaal and physical health issues are not jobs that UK citizens reject and in fact they normally require safeguards of background checks and a level of qialification.

There are laws in the UK that protect the minimum wage of genuine employees and whilst there are plenty of unscrupulous employers, we do not have enforced labour over here (apart from the illegal people traffickers which is an entirely different subject).

If your argument is that immigrants "have to" take these jobs knowing they will be receiving less than the law says they are entitiled to, it begs the question of what the incentive is to remain/migrate unless there is prospect of at least a minimum wage job.

It's a massively complex debate I understand and hopefully this thread will get moved to the Discussion area.

Edit : I would also say that it's no good critisising unscrupulous low paying employers but at the same time working for them. They only get away with it because there are workers willing to support their businesses. Most of these jobs are cash in hand so remember to add approx 25% to the calculations which is what the worker is depriving the public funds/governement/taxpayer.

Working for cash in hand condones illegally low wages and keeps tax evading employers in business!

lewt

Me too, but the OP posted and ran.....

exil

mitziwaltz wrote: »

It has come up here a couple of times, and it also frequently comes up on boards related to immigration, so it's worth posting. If you (or your spouse/other half) is an immigrant who does not yet have "indefinite leave to remain (in other words, if you only have "leave to remain" or "further leave to remain"--the two kinds of status given to Work Permit holders) do not even *think* of applying for Child Tax Credit, Working Tax Credit or any other benefit. The Home Office will refuse your application for ILR later on if you do, and you can then be refused work permit renewal/get deported. I have even run into benefit workers who do not know this and who have encouraged people to apply, and applications do slip through. It doesn't matter if someone misinformed you.
I know we are supposed to leave out policy here but... this is one of the reasons I was so hacked off about Gordon Brown's budget announcement about eliminating the 10 percent tax for low earners. Supposedly it "didn't matter" because anyone earning so little would have it made up by tax credits, right? Wrong--if you are an immigrant, like so many people working for low wages in this country (myself included until my new job!), it means the government is going to take a full 10 percent more of your earnings, and you will get NO benefits to make up the difference:mad: . This is an especially crappy thing to do to those people brought here to do jobs that UK citizens don't want--picking crops, gutting fish, cleaning, nasty construction jobs, elder care and so on. Many of these folks in my area aren't even receiving minimum wage, thanks to devious tricks by rotten employers... 10 percent extra on taxes are really going to hurt them.
It also occurs to me that UK citizens who have relied on tax credits to make up the difference between what they earn and what they need to actually survive on should also will be 10 percent down from this budget unless I misunderstand something abot how tax credits work...your tax credits would first go against tax owed, only after that was covered would you get any cash.

On the last point - tax credit changes (specifically, an increase in the threshhold from £5220 to £6420) will give most tax credit recipients on low incomes an extra £400 or so, enough to cover the loss from the 10pc tax band. And no-one will be 10% down as the increase only applies to the £2000 of income between about 5k and 7k, not to total income. Someone on £7000 a year (no tax credits) will lose £200 or about 3% of income. From 7k to 15k the loss will be gradually reduced by the effect of the drop in the standard rate. Nevertheless, I disagree with these changes as the people it hits will by and large be on low incomes.

On the point about immigration - well a line has to be drawn somewhere, I suppose. Not sure our rules on tax and benefits are any more draconian than elsewhere in Europe or the USA. As a matter of politics, think what the Daily Mail would make of immigrants getting extra benefits.

wolfehouse

if an immigrant is not working, bringing up a family etc. and partner is working that family does have an income and child benefit- which historically used to be part of a tax relief) can be paid in the name of the native partner. but there can be knock on implications down the line - a homemaker who has child benefit in their name is credited with state pension years if not working.

I believe that a family income is a family income no matter if it is one partner or two bringing it in and that the set up of income tax should reflect this. now that election time is coming up there is talk of this.
no immigrant should come expecting to live on benefits but things do happen in life and if one partner is british they will have to live somewhere where one person is not yet entitled.

kelloggs36

It isn't just immigrants that will be hit with this tax change. Those single people on low wages and pensioners will also be hit - it is grossly unfair and rather sick of Gordon Brown to try and trick people into believing that they will not lose out as it is very clear that there are groups of people who will lose out. He really must think we are all stupid in this country. Personally, we won't lose out because my husband earns way above the point at which we gain by the reduction of the 2p rate, however, I would rather we paid the same as before and let the lower paid earners have the benefit. It is so stupid.