UK borrowing figures worse.

Graham_Devon

shortchanged wrote: »

Fair enough Thrugelmir but was the Europe picture totally unforeseeable?

The problem with the current government is that they are unable/don't want to {delete as appropriate} react to the current problems.

I'd say that's endemic through all governments.

I can't see labour knowingly trashing their popularity for the good of the country.

Wookster

shortchanged wrote: »

Yes this is one area where we do not agree Graham. Whilst as I stated I was not against cuts I felt the current plans have just helped put us back into recession so have been self defeating because the deficit is no better now and nowhere near what the coalition were predicting.

You're talking like there is a choice. Before May 2010 bond yields were infact rising and the first signs of trouble were showing. With our financial services industry and the level of indebtedness we have a rise in interest rates would be nothing short of catastrophic.

The problem lies with the fact that we have politicians who are tinkering, when what we need are in-fact radical solutions. Borrowing numbers for July show this.

As to Labour's hypocritical sniping from the sidelines, no changes there. They keep on showing how irrelevant they are and Chris Leslie's comments that the chancellor is "adding to the deficit" are just plain stupid.

Masomnia

Quite so, Wookie. I post this article from March 2010 fairly often, interesting reading.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7423138/Europes-banks-brace-for-UK-debt-crisis.html

Investors unsure whether it will be us or Greece in the firing line.

Thrugelmir

shortchanged wrote: »

The problem with the current government is that they are unable/don't want to {delete as appropriate} react to the current problems.

Unsure what the Government can do that would create a nuclear reaction next month. Maybe in 18 months to 2 years time we will see the impact of decisions made tomorrow.

Governments don't control individuals behaviour , they can only influence it. Create the groundworks.

treliac

Masomnia wrote: »

Quite so, Wookie. I post this article from March 2010 fairly often, interesting reading.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7423138/Europes-banks-brace-for-UK-debt-crisis.html

Investors unsure whether it will be us or Greece in the firing line.

.... it is arguable whether a hung Parliament in Britain will lead to
policy drift,

Not so arguable 2 years down the line.

Graham_Devon

I've been looking for evidence of these cuts, and it seems there isn't many, but an obviously right leaning journalist has written this:

The reason so many people readily believe the ‘cuts lie’ is almost certainly because there has been an unprecedentedly tight squeeze on living standards as a result of higher taxes and falling or stagnating incomes, and rising inflation. Labour politicians have planted the idea that this unhappy state of affairs has been caused by slashing spending. On BBC1’s Question Time on Thursday, the former Labour Cabinet Minister Peter Hain complained of ‘relentless cuts’.

The Coalition talks up the supposed cuts for different reasons. It needs tens of billions of pounds to cover its enormous levels of borrowing. Dr Morgan plausibly suggests in his report that ‘the Government seems to believe it can con the bond markets using the smoke and mirrors of largely illusory austerity’.

The all-powerful BBC has contributed mightily to the general perception that there have been savage cuts. When did any of us hear a BBC presenter or economist say there have hardly been any overall cuts in public spending, or that the minor ones already planned will be mild in comparison to the much sharper austerity programmes being visited on Italy, Ireland, Spain and Greece?
By contrast, we hear almost daily about the allegedly awful effect of particular cuts, and are never told the whole truth, which is that very few inroads have yet been made into the enormous maw of public spending.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2146745/COMMENT-Cuts-Theres-overall-fall-public-expenditure-Coalition-came-power.html

The figures are fact. What ARE these cuts? No one seems to know. I do feel the author is on to something when they suggest we all believe the cuts simply because were all worse off.

Asked on the street to name some cuts and people simply can't.

Thrugelmir

Masomnia wrote: »

Quite so, Wookie. I post this article from March 2010 fairly often, interesting reading.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7423138/Europes-banks-brace-for-UK-debt-crisis.html

Investors unsure whether it will be us or Greece in the firing line.

Given that RBS has a £70 billion exposure to Europe and a £45 billion exposure to Eire. There are some major hurdles to overcome.

A._Badger

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I've been looking for evidence of these cuts, and it seems there isn't many, but an obviously right leaning journalist has written this:

Asked on the street to name some cuts and people simply can't.

No, but a few years of the BBC giving limitless airtime to anyone who can pronounce the phrase 'Tory Coots' with the right accent will do wonders as brainwashng.

[Deleted User]

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Also, I can never quite work out the oppositions stance on this one.

For instance, they claim we need to build more homes, but then campaign against easier planning and easier building regulations.

They say we should have more spending, more jobs, but then fight against any proposal to create more jobs.

For example (and this IS one small, but very recent example), the NHS are looking into setting up clinics in other countries, where we could bring revenue into the UK and create jobs in the UK. So labour are campaigning against it straight away.

I'm not sure anyone is right on this whole idea of whether there are too many cuts. Surely we won't be able to tell until around 2030 when we have the benefit of hindsight, accounts, and history....only then can we see what we could have done better.

What I do know is there is no point campaigning for jobs, construction, homes etc and then campaigning against any change put forward by the current government which stops all those things happening.

The call for more house building, but campaign against planning etc is hideous hypocrisy and doesn't really help anyone....all it does it confuse the populace, wastes money on beauracracy and wastes precious time.

the nhs trust that opened a centre in dubai made only £300,000 profit from it last year,their ceo said that most trust would find it extremely difficult if not impossible to do even that poorly

Graham_Devon

Just found a map of cuts on the guardian...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/cutswatch

Some of the ones which stood out to me:

- Cuts to library opening hours
- Closure of advice service
- Futher ed cuts
- Local library cut
- Closure of arts cinema
- Closure of volunteers centre
- Cuts to residents parking scheme
- Job losses at english heritage
- Closure of NHS hospital (I know this hospital, and it doesn't mention another was built!!)
- New charges are recycling centre
- Library funding cuts
- Probation service cuts

I could go on...

These are guardian read submitted cuts. There are quite a few on the NHS, but I am taking them with a pinch of salt, as whole branches are closing down, but that doesn't mean the service is lost. It's lost locally, but moved elsewhere to save costs of renting property.

If these are all the guardian readers can come up with, surely this proves the point that the "savage and relentless cuts" description is a little hysterical?