UK borrowing figures worse.

Masomnia

Well said Graham. The problem is they just oppose everything that comes up as a default; ok the government won't be getting everything right, but not once have I heard Labour say 'Yep, actually that'll do some good.'

The BBC article on the NHS abroad thing sums it up for me:

'Labour began the initiative while in government, but shadow health minister Jamie Reed criticised the coalition's plans.'

Says it all.

Graham_Devon

Masomnia wrote: »

Well said Graham. The problem is they just oppose everything that comes up as a default; ok the government won't be getting everything right, but not once have I heard Labour say 'Yep, actually that'll do some good.'

The BBC article on the NHS abroad thing sums it up for me:

'Labour began the initiative while in government, but shadow health minister Jamie Reed criticised the coalition's plans.'

Says it all.

Same sort of thing happened today on the radio discussing the sell off off council houses. Labour suggest the right to buy scheme was a massive mistake. Asked why they didn't change it, the simple line "we are not in government and cannot change anything" was trotted out.

More worrying was that the fact they WERE in government was simply ignored by the presenter.

What gripes me is that I'm paying my taxes which these MPs are pocketing solely to cause more money to be spent through pointless and hypocritical campaigns, meaning that everything takes 3x as long as costs 6x as much. Just how much does it cost to have reports drawn up in the face of party political opposition constantly?

I understand the position and undertand with need opposition, but I've never seen point blank opposition to literally everything stated before.

Thrugelmir

Masomnia wrote: »

Apparently it's worse mainly because of a fall in corporation tax receipts from the energy sector. Anyone have ideas as to why that is?

The Elgin gas platform has been out of productive commission since March. (Will be hitting GDP figures for manufacturing as well).

Just saw this has been posted already.:o

Thrugelmir

shortchanged wrote: »

the UK could well start heading the way of some other Euro countries in that austerity becomes self defeating.

There's hardly been any pain yet. Growth cannot fill the void. There has to be a material readjustment as to what services the UK can afford. Capping public sector pay for example.

While Osbourne steers the ship someones got to get off their backsides and man the oars. There's no easy answers. At some point some difficult decisions may have to be made.

shortchanged_2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

This is one of those areas I have to respectfully disagree with you shortchanged.

Firstly, I'm not really sure what cut's we have had, where cuts have gone too far. If these cuts didn't exist at all, presumably we'd just be borrowing and spending more?

I think where we will agree is that we are in a deep and long lasting recession, where sticking plasters (indeed, extra spending, not cuts at all) are being used to dampen the effects. I think we agree this is causing the recession to be prolonged, not shortened, and I have a feeling just spending more and borrowing more would have the same effect.

I think we have spent as much as we reasonably can and we are all (personal and government) at saturation point on the spending. I'm not sure theres room for more without dire consequences.

Yes this is one area where we do not agree Graham. Whilst as I stated I was not against cuts I felt the current plans have just helped put us back into recession so have been self defeating because the deficit is no better now and nowhere near what the coalition were predicting.

A great deal of the pain from cuts are still to come, which now we are already in recession are just going to hurt more.

Where we do agree now is that these difficult times for many are here for some time.

Thrugelmir

shortchanged wrote: »

Yes this is one area where we do not agree Graham. Whilst as I stated I was not against cuts I felt the current plans have just helped put us back into recession so have been self defeating because the deficit is no better now and nowhere near what the coalition were predicting.

Problems in Europe have changed the picture. So the UK is not alone.

shortchanged_2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Problems in Europe have changed the picture. So the UK is not alone.

Fair enough Thrugelmir but was the Europe picture totally unforeseeable?

The problem with the current government is that they are unable/don't want to {delete as appropriate} react to the current problems.

pqrdef

jay213 wrote: »

Deficit reduction blow as figures reveal Government borrowed £3 billion more than expected last month
Public sector finances suffered from a 20 per cent fall in corporation tax receipts from business while public spending rose by 5 per cent, fuelled by higher benefit payments

Well that's recessions for you. You may as well spend, because if you don't spend, you'll spend anyway. Spend your way out of recession, or pay the price of recession.

Thrugelmir

shortchanged wrote: »

Fair enough Thrugelmir but was the Europe picture totally unforeseeable?

I suspect that for too many years we all got carried with drinking the waters from the fountain of eternal growth.

Peston made an interesting post today. Seems as if it wasn't just UK banks that became carried away with lending money. When the UK banks were in crisis the European banks were assumed to be in good health. The reality now appears somewhat different.

According to data published by the German central bank, the Bundesbank, net lending by German banks to Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece and Ireland rose from €67.4bn when the euro was launched in 1999 to a peak of €510bn in November 2008. In other words, banks behaved as though the eurozone was a seamless unified banking market.

But since then, total net credit provided to these economies by German banks has more than halved, to €241bn in May - and there has been a net contraction of credit of more than €60bn in just the last six months. Or to put it another way, banks are increasingly seeing themselves as national institutions again, rather than euro institutions.

As for France's banks, they have also been retreating back to their home market. According to Morgan Stanley, their net lending to the rest of the eurozone reached a peak of €742bn as late as April 2010, but has since plunged to €489bn. Morgan Stanley expects this repatriation of lending by French banks to continue - and warns this could be particularly deleterious for credit availability in fragile Italy.

Or to put it another way, the unbreakable link between credit provision and economic activity means that recessionary conditions in Spain, Italy and the weaker eurozone economies will intensify, as French and German banks take their money back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19077140

A._Badger

pqrdef wrote: »

Well that's recessions for you. You may as well spend, because if you don't spend, you'll spend anyway. Spend your way out of recession, or pay the price of recession.

Good grief, even 'sunny' Jim Callaghan admitted you can't 'spend your way out of a recession'!

Borrow your way out of a debt crisis? It's like an alcoholic trying to binge drink his way to a cure.