Orange 'Free' Broadband

Eva49

Wifi wrote: »

Hi
I have been reading through, but can you clarify the position for me.
I had the letter saying my broadband with Orange would stop if I did not change to their line rental. Is it now the case across the board or is it only the customers who have made the complaints to Ofcom etc. who will be able to continue with the 'free broadband'. Do I still have to begin the process of jumping through hoops or will they now not stop by broadband?

Hi Wifi

I would follow the process listed unless you hear otherwise
Registering with Ofcom getting a case number then allows you to call Executive Office directly

Without an Ofcom ref they will not speak to you and will refer you to CS - which will just add to the confusion as I am sure they will be the last to know any fresh news!;)

moon777

MSE_Helen wrote: »

Hi all,

Just to let you know MSE is still looking into this and we are keeping an eye on this thread.

I did post a few weeks ago and some of you sent over documents, ts&cs etc stating that broadband was either 'free for life' or evidence that implied that free broadband would last indefinitely as long as you had the correct mobile phone contract (thanks to all those who did) - but if anyone else has anything from Orange to suggest this, please email me at: [EMAIL="helen@moneysavingexpert.com"]helen@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL]

It would also really help if you can let me know where you got this evidence from ie, was it sent to you directly from Orange, or passed on from someone on this thread. Thanks.

MSE Helen

Helen - there are 2 things going on here - one the argument over the free for life BB - withdrawn by orange as allowed in their T&C - so pointless.

Two: miss selling of upgrades by promising the continuation of free BB for the duration of the upgrade. Orange have broken consumer and real law here, and some of us have evidence via 3rd party agents who did the upgrades upon oranges behalf. Orange also have the evidence in recorded upgrade calls - although they will now state they dont record all calls! I will forward my evidence if MSE is interested in pursuing the miss selling of upgrades - instead of the pointless fight over free BB for life. My opinion.

moon777

Why are some getting results and some not?

Could it be that those who are not getting a result - did not actually ask at upgrade if the free BB would continue - and Orange know who did and who did not via recorded upgrade calls to the mobile sales team?

It's all i can think of, if you have followed eva49 process and they are not 'settling' - otherwise why have some of us got what we required and yet others are being allowed to go to court?

Are people jumping on the 'i asked at upgrade and was assured' bandwagon? = making it harder for the legitimate claims?

Just a thought:D

Paully232000

My reply from CAB via their online form:

Dear me

Thank you for your enquiry to the Citizens Advice consumer service dated 22/10/2012. Your reference number for this case is (XYZ) and should be quoted in all further correspondence regarding this case.

We are currently experiencing high levels of demand for advice by email and would like to take this opportunity to apologise for the delay in responding to your email and for any inconvenience caused as a consequence.

We understand from your email that you are trying to establish your legal position after experiencing problems with a broadband and mobile phone provider.

Based on the information you have provided the key legal points in response to your enquiry are as follows:

First I would like to clarify, that we would always advise a consumer to react to any potential breach of contract, by a trader as soon as possible. Delaying any claim could be deemed as affirmation or that the consumer is not that concerned with any problems that have resulted from the trader not adhering to their legal obligations.

However under the Limitations Act 1980 a consumer does have up to 6 years to make a claim for any breach in a simple contract.

UK law defines a representation as 'a statement of fact, made during pre-contractual negotiations; as an inducement to enter into a contract'. As such, if a purchaser discovers that such a statement of fact is false, they could claim the seller has misrepresented the product and hold the seller in breach of contract. This could allow the purchaser to seek damages or rescission (be placed back into their pre-contractual status) or an indemnity for any expenses.

Therefore if you can provide reasonable argument that the trader disclosed false information that persuaded you into purchasing that mobile phone contract from that specific trader, you could look to hold the trader in breach of contract and pursue them for an amount of damages that would directly reflect any losses you have incurred as a consequence. Alternatively you could attempt to rescind (terminate without penalty) the contract.

The law would expect any claimant to mitigate (make less severe) their losses.

Therefore at this stage, you could try to discuss the matter further with the trader, with reference to the above information. However if you are unable to reach an amicable compromise, you could take a more formal approach and send the trader a recorded delivery letter. The letter should outline any relevant events regarding this issue and make it clear, what you expect from the trader and why. It should also give the trader a reasonable timeframe in which to respond to your claim(s) e.g. 14 days. It is also worth retaining a copy of the letter and the recorded delivery receipt provided by the post office.

The reason we suggest sending the trader a letter is just in case you are unable to reach an amicable resolution. Having a record of your correspondence would help you demonstrate how and when you attempted to resolve the dispute yourself, should you need to escalate your claim with the appropriate independent body e.g. ombudsman scheme, alternative dispute resolution scheme (ADR) or even a civil court.

In addition, sending letters by recorded delivery would allow you to use the ‘Recorded Signed For’ label the post office will supply you with to confirm that the trader has received the letter.

If the matter remains unresolved, your next step would be to contact CISAS (the Communication & Internet Services Adjudication Scheme) on 0207 520 3827. CISAS is an independent dispute resolution service for communications providers and their customers. The Communications Regulator, OFCOM, has approved it.


If you require any further civil advice or information about this case, please do not hesitate to contact the Citizens Advice consumer service by return email or on 08454 04 05 06 quoting the case reference number.

Thank you for your enquiry.

(Name of CAB worker)

Citizens Advice consumer service

moon777

diamonds wrote: »

You only need a payg, Orange changed it to allow that when o2 launched broadband.

Since the start of this forum there have been posts stating people got their free BB continuing despite not paying the 30 odd a month for the service. Many would appear to have downgraded after the initial sign up in 2006 and still got the free BB - and some 'appear' to have got it on PAYG

I was always informed at upgrade that it would continue free if i paid 30+ a month - so i did.

During my 'case' exec saw i only used about a £15 package - so it was apparent to them i was paying 15 odd for the BB 'element' - they admitted as much in the calls.

Well Diamonds post has upset me - because i feel i have paid an extra £960 since 2008 that was unnecessary - as others got the free BB on PAYG and less than 30 a month contracts.

So for me - this is now not over, despite me no longer being an Orange / EE customer and having settled over the miss selling of my upgrade - i am now seeking legal advice over the recovery of this money - initial investigation with CAB indicates i may well be within my rights to claim back this money. Orange you best get your legal dept to work now so we dont waste weeks when i pursue this matter with my solicitor next week.

Nomoreorange

I thought you might be interested to hear that there is no change at Orange and they are still going through with shutting down your broadband and email account unless you transfer your landline to them or are able to reach an agreement with them.

I couldn't access my broadband account or webmail yesterday although my homebroadband was still working. I called them today and they have told me thatthey have terminated my account as they said they would do. I am not at homebut they tell me that my broadband has now stopped as well.

I have been following this thread since the beginning and did post under adifferent name on page three (Janandy1) but can’t get the login to work andcant reset the password cos I can’t access my Orange email account. Not a great loss as it’s not my main email.

I did contact Orange when I got the first letter and got nowhere. Iadmire and applaud those of you who havekept posting and fighting for your rights but unfortunately I am not able tospend hours during the day on the internet or making calls so I did not pursuethe matter and was waiting to see what would happen. Well I have now found out.I got two letters and an email from Orange with three different dates. Only thefirst date has passed. I even checked my account to see my bills a couple ofdays ago to see my latest bill covered me to 1st November at zero charge sothought it was going to be the November date that they would use.

When I contacted Orange I told themfrom the start that I only stayed with Orange for the free mobile and if thisis how they treat customers I was not prepared to commit to them. My contactonly has a few months to run so not enough to make it worth doing much about. GoodbyeOrange, I have only ever had an Orange mobile but never will again.

The best offer I could get today was my email account will be reactivatedfor 7 days to allow me to take off what I need. There is no need for them toshut down email addresses like this except as a last attempt for you to contactthem. I still have use of a BT email address from adial up service from years ago.

So everyone, be warned, the future may be bright but definitely not Orange. Good Luck to you all.

Eva49

Time to re-post I think - In the absence of any announcement I think the following still applies!


Originally Posted by Eva49
For anyone new here viewing this forum; much information has been ‘lost’ within the length of the thread I thought it prudent to collate a post outlining procedure for addressing this issue; Miss-sold mobile contracts

1) Phone Ofcom Tel: 0300 123 3333 or 020 7981 3040 http://www.ofcom.org.uk/contact-us ; outline your case and ask for a case number.

2) Phone Orange Executive Office: 0800 0790 134
Quoting Ofcom case no. and note the name of the person you speak to. Under Ofcom rules they have 48 hours to respond.

3) Put your complaint in writing following http://www1.orange.co.uk/documents/a...e-20120322.pdf

FAO name of the person you spoke to…..They have a 8 week window in which to resolve before it can be advanced to CISAS……..note: this case cannot be advanced to arbitration (CISAS) as it is deemed a ‘business decision’.
Then email to [EMAIL="executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com"]executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com[/EMAIL]

4) Report the case to Citizens Advice Bureaux (CAB) 08454 04 05 06 and ask for it to be reported to trading standards
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan...d_internet.htm

5) The next step would be to take your claim to the small claims court.
Issue a Notice of Pre-Court Action (suggest 10-14days notice) and email FAO (Name of Contact) [EMAIL="executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com"]executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com[/EMAIL] back that up with a hard copy and send by recorded delivery to Head Office:

Company Reg No: 2178917

Company Secretary
Orange Personal Communications Ltd.,
Hatfield Business Park
Hatfield
Hertfordshire
AL10 9BW

OR

Company Reg No 02382161

Company Secretary
EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE LIMITED
HATFIELD BUSINESS PARK
HATFIELD
HERTFORDSHIRE
AL10 9BW

6) Link to register online application

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

Finally, contact BBC Watchdog and any media available.

Good Luck to all Apologies for the length!

[FONT=&quot]Orange retained their Mobile Contract Customers by offering ‘Free BB for Life’ as an inducement to renew their Mobile Contract for a minimum term, and most of us relied upon that representation that Orange would not remove this incentive, certainly, it was not foreseeable at the time of renewal this would be to our detriment some time into a new contract.
Customers are now under duress to accept the current offer which is a substantial variation in terms, and has to be acceptable…


[/FONT]

Nomoreorange

moon777 wrote: »

Why are some getting results and some not?

Could it be that those who are not getting a result - did not actually ask at upgrade if the free BB would continue - and Orange know who did and who did not via recorded upgrade calls to the mobile sales team?

It's all i can think of, if you have followed eva49 process and they are not 'settling' - otherwise why have some of us got what we required and yet others are being allowed to go to court?

Are people jumping on the 'i asked at upgrade and was assured' bandwagon? = making it harder for the legitimate claims?

Just a thought:D

My last upgrade was to a new tarrif because I changed to an iphone and I made a point of checking that broadband would still be free because it was a different tarrif. Didnt stop them cutting off my broadband.

moon777

Nomoreorange wrote: »

My last upgrade was to a new tarrif because I changed to an iphone and I made a point of checking that broadband would still be free because it was a different tarrif. Didnt stop them cutting off my broadband.

Well in that case they have broken the law in dealing with you - and by cutting off the BB they have opened themselves up to a serious claim for losses in a small claims court. In your position i would follow Eva49 process and at stage 5 just before issuing a pre court notification i would ring exec and ask to speak to a manager to see if a deal can be done to your satisfaction without going all the way to court.

Eva49

moon777 wrote: »

Since the start of this forum there have been posts stating people got their free BB continuing despite not paying the 30 odd a month for the service. Many would appear to have downgraded after the initial sign up in 2006 and still got the free BB - and some 'appear' to have got it on PAYG

I was always informed at upgrade that it would continue free if i paid 30+ a month - so i did.

During my 'case' exec saw i only used about a £15 package - so it was apparent to them i was paying 15 odd for the BB 'element' - they admitted as much in the calls.

Well Diamonds post has upset me - because i feel i have paid an extra £960 since 2008 that was unnecessary - as others got the free BB on PAYG and less than 30 a month contracts.

So for me - this is now not over, despite me no longer being an Orange / EE customer and having settled over the miss selling of my upgrade - i am now seeking legal advice over the recovery of this money - initial investigation with CAB indicates i may well be within my rights to claim back this money. Orange you best get your legal dept to work now so we dont waste weeks when i pursue this matter with my solicitor next week.

I did the same - never used even 50% of my monthly allowance and always maintained my mobile account at £30+