when you reach breaking point

luxor4t

Popperwell wrote: »

This will sound so political and it is but this thread is the "Real World" the "silent majority" talking, the real population of the UK...Hello media and politicians care to see how ordinary people who are unemployed(but looking for work as most are)the sick, the vulnerable......

Not just this thread, I think of MSE forums as the 'Mass Observation' of our day. (http://www.massobs.org.uk/a_brief_history.htm) Here are the real opinions of real people on all sorts of matters and over an extended period of time.

bluebag

What will happen will happen I guess, if as a country we need to start all over again we will manage it. We have a long history of pulling back from the jaws of doom.

The kind of folk on here are just those, roll their sleeves up and get stuck intypes.
It's the road from here to there that's rocky tho'

Popperwell

luxor4t wrote: »

Not just this thread, I think of MSE forums as the 'Mass Observation' of our day. (http://www.massobs.org.uk/a_brief_history.htm) Here are the real opinions of real people on all sorts of matters and over an extended period of time.

Luckily many are now talking and thinking the same, it's when one section of society has a go at others and we have the problem of a divided society and the politicians are playing this game but it will only work for so long...the trouble is the truth is not being told and some take what they hear on face value...

lostinrates

I hate the immigration issue. Generally i feel we are overpopulated. Not just the high population density uk, but the world.

My parents....one half anglo/welsh for pretty much ever the other half irish, crossed with an immgrant, (ironically from uk stock in colonies). My husband....one side half english jew for generations, other half german jew, the other half italian/english jew. Are we immigrants or not? My sister was not born in uk (and both her parenets are not english) but sounds as english as any one, is white, blonde, blue eyed. I look far less 'english' but was born here.

I would HATE to live in a mono cultural society, and imo one of the things we can be proud of here is that we embrace, forexample, other cuisines. Its also hard to stomach that its ok for some one who has taken from the system from day one of life is ok because they are white british, but someone who has a bad six months depsite several tax paying years here is 'not welcome' or less of an asset.

I do think sendiong home wages, i.e. exporting money from pur economy, is a big problem, as is sourcing the cheapest goods ocerseas. And despite the pensions crisis i personally could not have reconciled myself to having more than one or perhaps two children, because imo resources are worth more than appensions.

rising_from_the_ashes

COOLTRIKERCHICK wrote: »

Went to the local sunday market to see if i could buy some cheap fruit and veg, but to be honest... it wasnt great value:o, so I popped into Lidl to have a look, and is it me but the size of cauli's, cabbages swede etc got smaller and the prices higher?

Our local market is mixed ...... individual items or a week's supply is expensive but you can buy huge bags of potatoes, carrots, swedes etc for very little money - got a 12kg bag of swedes (from memory there were 14 huge ones!) for £4 ...... paid 56p for a piddling little one this morning at the sm.

The problem for me is that being by myself, I struggle to get through these huge sacks before things turn - DM is hopefully moving closer and we'll be able to go 1/2s on things more often

lostinrates

Sorry, i just decided i also want to sy how much i think british people take for granted. Its really improtant when low to rememebr what we have had that we have not had to pay out for...

Education, healthcare, access to libraries. University places while £9k seems a lot are still very well funded. E.g. My niece just had to turn down an offer from an american u iveristy because depsite TWO financial awards the shortfall is £40k a year. We have a decent if not perfect justice and policing system, we have access to help with social services and the plethora of funded or supported charity groups. We have a system to help.

It stinks atm, of course it does, we all feel it, even those who are 'ok' (and i feel blessed every day of my life to be there now, it could be so different) are feeling it...and we need to keep those people able to spend. E.g. I am putting off becoming an employer because of finacial situation, there is nothing i would like more than to know the financial horizon was clear wnough for me to create a good position here, with fair working environment.

Grouchy

My best wishes and positive thoughts do go out to all those who are struggling and there are many and as others have mentioned many who are too proud or shy to say so. There but for the grace .... and it is certainly very true in these dodgy times. Some of my family as well as friends are having difficult times and with no light at the end of the tunnel at the present. And some have been made to feel it is all their fault! when they have been reasonable sensible beings with jobs and bits of savings etc. We are a lot better off than many other countries, but when you see foodbank queues growing and people being made homeless you know things are very serious indeed.

I don't want to go all political on this thread myself, but I do think it is easy to get into blaming other people, often the people who live down the street.

In any society there a small number of chancers and takers of all sorts, ages, colours and there always will be. But most people are doing their best. While immigration may be a concern to many, it can be rather a red herring and the facts are not always clear and there is often a lot of spin on things for political convenience. Also it suits the political parties if we, the ordinary folk, are at each others throats. What we need as someoneone before mentioned is solidarity and helping each other out where possible. I help my family out where I can, and also an elderly lady who lives down the road when she will accept a wee bit of support!

People get angry over the statistics (creative or real, who knows half the time?!) about immigration, but consider some other statistics which are more fundamental and IMO are the real problem that need urgent change ...

1. The richest top 10% of this country control and own 44% of all the wealth of the country.
The poorest 50% of the people in this country only have 9% of the whole wealth of the country.
Something very distorted there!

2. Also consider these as some random examples ...
Mr T ... £2 billion profits per 3 month period
B Gas profits up 20% to 3.2 billion
East Anglian Water (private water company) £700 million profit in 2011
Of course private companies should make a profit, but that is extortionate!

3. And don't forget the government has given taxpayers money to bail out private (yes privately owned by shareholders who take all the profits!) to the tune of £600 billlion.


I seem to be getting on a right hobbyhorse here so I'm going to shuddup now. It is just so unfair and wrong to see hardowrking ordinary people getting into terrible dire straits when I believe it doesnt hve to be like that is things were shared more equally around.

bluebag

lostinrates wrote: »

Sorry, i just decided i also want to sy how much i think british people take for granted. Its really improtant when low to rememebr what we have had that we have not had to pay out for...
.

While we don't have to pay for these things at point of use, we have paid for them.National Insurance, Income tax, VAT on everything but the most basic of foods, community charge, road tax, TV licence, prescription charges, dental charges and now university fees.

The thing that upsets many is the support system is skewed, it should be an insurance system, where paying a premium into the fund entitles you to claim if you fall on bad circumstances.

What rankles, is many make excessive claims on the insurance without having paid any of the 'premiums' which means those who continue to pay are subsidising those that never have.

To add insult to injury the payout on the 'insurance' often results in a better standard of living than those paying for it.

It will end though, the maths can't be denied. Any insurance that has more claims than premiums goes bust. We actually are already bust, as a country we are in massive debt to fund a national benefit and pension system we can not afford.

lostinrates

bluebag wrote: »

While we don't have to pay for these things at point of use, we have paid for them.National Insurance, Income tax, VAT on everything but the most basic of foods, community charge, road tax, TV licence, prescription charges, dental charges and now university fees.

The thing that upsets many is the support system is skewed, it should be an insurance system, where paying a premium into the fund entitles you to claim if you fall on bad circumstances.

What rankles, is many make excessive claims on the insurance without having paid any of the 'premiums' which means those who continue to pay are subsidising those that never have.

To add insult to injury the payout on the 'insurance' often results in a better standard of living than those paying for it.

It will end though, the maths can't be denied. Any insurance that has more claims than premiums goes bust. We actually are already bust, as a country we are in massive debt to fund a national benefit and pension system we can not afford.

I agree free at the point of use.

But for some, low or non contributors, for whatever reason,very heavily subsidised or tantamount to free.

Rainy-Days

gettingready wrote: »

Some do not want to contribute but some would like to....only.. they are not ALLOWED to work, they are not given work permits while their applications are being processed. What nonsense is that?

I do not work for immigration but from what I have gleaned there are good reasons behind this. The Government does not allow permits to work whilst their applications are processed, because the majority of initial decisions are made in less than 12 months. It is when they launch appeals that it then goes into a lengthy period and they are then able to apply for work permits, which are considered on a merit by merit basis. If you bear in mind that they also are able to claim publically funded legal aid in which to fight their deportation and they have access to the NHS along with supermarket vouchers, accommodation and a portion of their utilitiies paid for it adds up to quite a bit. However the majority do not wish to work. The Government believes that by allowing asylum seekers to work it would act as a kind of “pull factor” which they believe would encourage more people to claim asylum - not sure whether that rings true or not but they say they have done research on it!

It would also be difficult to keep track of the amount of them working and also some of them having benefits paid as well. Some of them drift off into the so called 'black economy' of cheap labour, which to my mind comes under the heading of exploitation by the hirers as they pay very little. The deportation centres in the UK costs tax payers dearly as well and going through and exhausting every legal route with publically funded legal aid is a heavy burden.

I am not going into this too heavily because I am now conscious of not turning this into a political immigration football discussion. The original point of this thread was about those who are struggling and for allot of us it is flipping hard. We also don't lose sight of helping others out along the way as well including an elderly neighbour of ours who two years ago during one of the worst winters we found had hardly any heat. Luckily we still have the goodwill of a firm that allows us to take their old pallets (they have been kindly delivering them to him recently as well) and smash them up so he can have them on his fire and we have taken a greater interest in his welfare as well. We had no idea he was paying full council tax when in effect he should not have been paying hardly anything at all, so we sorted that out for him. I just hope a good bit karma along the way will one day come back to us as a good deed.

I worry about the future and where it will all end up. The very same worry that my mum had during the 1970's when dad was on a three day working week. It seems some things have not changed. Time and technology has moved on but the worries that plagued throughout have pretty much stayed the same!