This forum is not hardcore enough!

rising_from_the_ashes

andymc29 wrote: »

I just feel like there shouldn't be a problem asking why someone needs to borrow money

TBH I'm not at all interested in why people have got into debt - the posts where there's a load of explanation ..... I just ignore the text and read the bits about the debts etc.

It doesn't matter why it's happened - only that the person has addressed the reasons so that they don't happen again.

I have rarely seen a post where taking on more loans, consolidation has been advised - it's not the answer and usually leads to more debts - not sure what threads you've been reading!

As others have said, it's a DFW board and most people are looking to become DF - it is frustrating sometimes when several people are saying things like "get rid of sky / cut entertainment, holidays etc etc" and people think they're essentials and cannot live without them .... but they obviously haven't had their LBM yet and until they do, there's not really a lot we can do apart from offer advice - usually from personal experience.

Idiophreak

andymc29 wrote: »

So if you want a new car, you drive an old car till you have the money to buy the new car. He only recommends debt when it's a mortgage, nothing else. It makes a lot of sense.

No, it makes no sense at all.

Why's he singled out mortgages as OK?

I'll tell you why - because he's fed up of people saying "all debt's bad? so I have to save up for a house before I buy one? If I have to take a mortgage, I can't afford it?" - so he's put a weird exception to his rule in to stop people hassling him...

There's *no* difference at all between taking out a massive mortgage to buy an expensive house and taking out a loan to buy an expensive car.

andymc29

There is a huge difference between taking out a loan for a car or taking out a mortgage!!!!!

The reason he allows mortgages is because you do not have the option of buying a much cheaper house than the one you want in most cases. Take the car example.

Person A wants a £15,000 car, so the advice is given that they should drive a £2000 car for cash until they save up £15000 for teh car they really want.

Person A wants to buy an average three bedroom house for £200,000. Can they live in a £30,000 house until they have the cash to buy the better one? No, of course not.

The other difference is that cars lose their value very quickly, where as houses generally don't. Making the type of thing you're buying completely different.

When I say "this forum" I mean MSE forums as a whole, not just the DFW section.

As for people not wanting things to get personal, don't go asking for advice on clearing debts if you don't want to admit how you got into the mess in the first place, that's the first stage of healing. Debt isn't just a numbers game, it's a behaviour issue.


Maybe I should have posted this on the credit card or loans section as people seem to think they're seperate forums.

seriousDFW

andymc29 wrote: »

There is a huge difference between taking out a loan for a car or taking out a mortgage!!!!!

The reason he allows mortgages is because you do not have the option of buying a much cheaper house than the one you want in most cases. Take the car example.

Person A wants a £15,000 car, so the advice is given that they should drive a £2000 car for cash until they save up £15000 for teh car they really want.

Person A wants to buy an average three bedroom house for £200,000. Can they live in a £30,000 house until they have the cash to buy the better one? No, of course not.

The other difference is that cars lose their value very quickly, where as houses generally don't. Making the type of thing you're buying completely different.

When I say "this forum" I mean MSE forums as a whole, not just the DFW section.

As for people not wanting things to get personal, don't go asking for advice on clearing debts if you don't want to admit how you got into the mess in the first place, that's the first stage of healing. Debt isn't just a numbers game, it's a behaviour issue.


Maybe I should have posted this on the credit card or loans section as people seem to think they're seperate forums.

Why not do us all a favour and stop posting this ridiculous nonsense?

eyeopener2

For what its worth Andy, I agree with you and Dave Ramsey. We would have a much better world if it wasn't based on debt.

My personal opinion only.

Tixy

If you are referring to the forum as a whole then it would probably be best placed in the site feedback section of the forum - its where these types of posts are usually moved to.

By posting in the DFW section of the forum, then people are going to assume you are referring to this board. And this board does have additional rules in relation to non-judgemental posting in addition to the rules that apply across the whole forum.
Many people don't read across different boards and so the words in your opening post don't seem to reflect the posts they see on the DFW board.

Idiophreak

andymc29 wrote: »

There is a huge difference between taking out a loan for a car or taking out a mortgage!!!!!

Not in principle, not according to your own principles, in fact...you said "I believe that you can't afford something if you have to finance it"

A *lot* of people buy more expensive houses than they could, of course they do!

There were houses available for 25% of the cost of my first home. Should I have bought one of those first, while I saved up for a place that wasn't half falling down and in an incredibly rough area?

DCFC79

andymc29 wrote: »

Why do people on this forum not ask what people are taking loans for?

Have you ventured over to the loans section ?

I myself and others have asked what a loan is for and some users get all defensive about it and either throw a tantrum or delete the first post.

For example there was a thread the other day where the user went off on 1 because despite us explaining wy his gf couldnt get a loan he was still adamant a loan was affordable. We even suggested applying for a loan for a lesser amount to buy a cheaper car or he the OP took out a loan himself for the amount needed/wanted.

I see the dfw for those who want help with trying to rid themselves of debts, plus sometimes the thought of so much debt gets to people and they might not like/want other users questioning why a loan was taken out.

MiddyMum

I agree with you Andy, I saw recently someone took out a loan for 8k for home improvements but was paying out over 700 pound a month in debt repayments. If she could save the 700 pound a month she was paying in debts for 1 whole year, she could have saved up £8400, therefore not needing to take out the extra loan. People need to understand that you need to live under your means, not to your means and spending every penny and taking out loans for things you want but don't need will always leave you out of pocket. If you don't have the money in savings for home improvements, you certainly shouldn't take out a loan for it.

andymc29

There were houses available for 25% of the cost of my first home. Should I have bought one of those first, while I saved up for a place that wasn't half falling down and in an incredibly rough area?

You're being ridiculous.

When I say you can't afford things if you have to finance it, I'm not talking about houses. The average houses costs around £200,000 (in the south east where I live). I'm not suggesting for one second that people should try to pay cash for a house (unless they actually have the money, then you should). But that people come on here, earning £25K saying they want a £10k loan for car and wondering what the best deal is they can get. The fact is that if we were giving them a sensible answer then we'd be saying to get a cheaper car and pay cash for it. I'm probably just biased because I've spent three years clearing my debts, and have s sister drowning in debt because they could "afford" the monthly repayments and aside from me, the rest of the family never said anything to her to stop her.

I hate debt, it's that simple. I think I need to go find a forum that agrees with me.