If nursery closes down, would we get advance payment back?

alinwales

We have recently taken our son out of nursery because they have been closed for repairs and don't have an anticipated re-opening time. If they are not covered for loss of business, they could go under.

After looking at payments we have made, we have paid around £500 advanced payments. We are writing a polite letter tonight laying out exactly how much we have paid against exactly what we have received, in order to request the remainder back.
We have spoken to the manager about it, and she assures us it will be sorted out but will take weeks (if not a couple of months). From talking to other parents, there are at least 2 methods she has been using to invoice people - sounds like she's made it very complicated for herself.

Anyway, we'd prefer our money back ASAP... if she closes down, is our money lost? the nursery is not listed at companies house, but I found it on another website, saying it's an unregistered company.

Can we impose a deadline on receiving our money back? 4 weeks?

Thanks for any advice.

bod1467

If she's running the business as a sole trader then you'd be able to sue her to recover the monies, as she'll likely have personal assets (e.g. car, house) that can be drawn on to service any claims/debts.

But you'd need to take the legal route if she's not going to be forthcoming with a refund.

DVardysShadow

You need to make the argument in your letter that without a defined date for restoration of service you need to make alternative arrangements and will need to commit to another provider

A lot depends on how and when you were notified of the closure. The first deadline I would set would be for resumption of normal service within 14 days [depending on notification?] otherwise you will expect monies to be repaid. And at this stage I would not set any other deadline.

After this period is up, if service is not restored, I would follow up very quickly with a Letter Before Action giving them a further 21 days to repay in full, therwise it goes to the small claims court.

alinwales

Cheers. i think more info is necessary...
We had a phonecall on Sunday 22 July saying that the nursery was closed effective immediately. Son is only in 2 days a week, so it was more than 24 hours in advance.
There was a parents meeting the following week and she stated that she was hoping to get part of the nursery reopened. However on inspection, there were lots of hoops to jump through and it would be end Aug/early Sept earliest that approval could be given. Meantime, the building work was expected to take 6 weeks.

Son is already at a new nursery (started this week), and old nursery manager was informed (before he started new one) and OK with the decision we made. So we left amicably - there was no real reason not to, it wasn't her fault.

I'm just worried now as the wife spoke to another mum who's moved her child and she reckons that the manager may not be covered for interruption of business and as a result could be in trouble. Just a rumour, but makes us want to take action rather than leave the refund to 'as and when it happens'.

So based on this new information (was trying to keep it short in teh first instance!)... I guess things change, DVS. Though I wouldn't go straight in with a 'threatening' stance.

DVardysShadow

alinwales wrote: »

....
So based on this new information (was trying to keep it short in teh first instance!)... I guess things change, DVS. Though I wouldn't go straight in with a 'threatening' stance.

I think you need to be fairly firm in setting your expectations, otherwise this will drift. The non threatening line you could take is to say the money was paid over in good faith for child minding to <date which you paid up to> and you need that money returning to pay for the alternative arrangements.

Clearly something has gone wrong here - fire? flood? environmental health? bankrupt? lost ofsted accreditation? pea do investigation? or whatever. Under the circumstances, the nursery should be taking the initiative to refund people at least for the weeks they have paid for and not delivered. You should not feel embarrassed about asking for your money back

alinwales

Well we've drafted something that's polite, firm and appreciative for the care she's given. I'm really hoping that it doesn't become bigger... but after finalising the calculations it's just over £600... so not insignificant!
The wrong is the leaseholders coming in to replace floors, so a bit out of their contrl. Whether she's being covered by them or not I don't know.

alinwales

A quick update to this, as it's been a month on now (and still no money)
> Nursery has now reopened with a reduced child level (presumably work is ongoing, I'm not sure)
> We were given a form from the nursery a couple of weeks ago to fill in. This was a very poor form trying to get us to fill in what we had paid for and what sessions the child was going to be in for. As we had stopped at the nursery and we were paying an average amount per month, the form was only part filled in, along with a copy of our table that we produced to show what we had paid over the entire time our child was at nusery compared to what care was received. Also, we had no idea what the form was for - our claim from the nursery, or for the nursery to claim from their insurance or the building owner for interruption of business.

Wife went in to the nusery this week to retrieve our son's slippers and bits (plus his poorly completed progress record, most of which was completed in his final days - after we had been in for a planned chat to see how his progress was going). She found out that the form was to assist the nursery's claim against the building owner, presumably for loss of business whilst closed.

So, should I follow up firmly now, or assume that this will be dragged out for a few more weeks and let it drift a bit? If nursery owner does not get money from the building owner then we'll have no choice but to go to court (us and other parents who are in same position as us, so hopefully a strong case) as she says she has no money to pay us until the claim is accepted - because she's used all the money paying staff and keeping the nursery open (which she was very pleased about btw!).

Hintza

alinwales wrote: »

If nursery owner does not get money from the building owner then we'll have no choice but to go to court

I will suggest that this action could be the straw that broke the camels back. From what you say she is trying her best but if I was in her shoes and parents were demanding money back that I didn't have at that time I would liquidate the company.

(The danger of course is that she will receive the insurance money and then liquidate, but that might be a risk you need to take.)

alinwales

Court would be an absolute last resort (though it helps that one of the mums is a lawyer, or trainee at least!). Of course we want to keep it amicable, though just because she kept leaving the room crying every few minutes during our parents info meeting and avoids answering direct questions about the state of play doesn't mean I'd leave it for months and months regardless of what's going on further up the claim chain.

My company law is a bit rusty, but as she's not a registered limited company, she's a sole owner which makes her liable and not the company right?
additionally, this is her second nursery site, she runs her first from an annex on her home... she's unlikely to want to wind up everything,especially as she's so passionate about it.

bris

If she is a sole trader then company law doesn't come into it, she doesn't have one. She is personally liable for the debts, assuming she has assets to take.