Tax penalties of £1,200 sent out by HMRC

wotsthat

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19256666

About 500,000 people are being sent notices of penalties of at least £1,200 for failing to submit their self-assessment tax returns.

The HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) penalty is made up of £900 in daily fines alongside a late-filing penalty of £300 or 5% of the tax due.

That's at least £600m on top of around the same amount in March when the late filing penalties were sent out.

HMRC stress that it's the returns they want not the penalties but I wonder what proportion of these fines actually get paid.

Quite surprised that 500,000 still haven't submitted self assessment forms. That must be a decent proportion of the self assesments sent out.

chewmylegoff

wotsthat wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19256666



That's at least £600m on top of around the same amount in March when the late filing penalties were sent out.

HMRC stress that it's the returns they want not the penalties but I wonder what proportion of these fines actually get paid.

Quite surprised that 500,000 still haven't submitted self assessment forms. That must be a decent proportion of the self assesments sent out.

there are about 9 million people in self assessment according to google, so this equates to about 1 in every 18 people not filing their tax returns.

i expect quite a few of them are dead, a lot have left the country and i wouldn't be surprised if the majority are pensioners who have no idea what they are supposed to be doing.

if HMRC collect more than 10% of the penalties i would be quite surprised.

Loughton_Monkey

I wonder how many of these reprobates could be dealt with [far more cheaply] by simply adjusting their current year code numbers to claw the fine back?

Surely we know their NI number?

A simple adjustment to "BR" so they pay tax for evermore on their entire earnings would recoup the fine in most cases, and also trigger some sort of response. If that doesn't work, introduce a code that says "100% tax rate". A payslip noting zero earnings would tend to attract their attention.

Austerity is not just about sacking a few bin men. It's also about ensuring that people pay their taxes.

Last time I looked, being dead, ignorant, illiterate, or leaving the country was never a sound excuse for not complying with the law or coughing up your tax.

chucknorris

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

I wonder how many of these reprobates could be dealt with [far more cheaply] by simply adjusting their current year code numbers to claw the fine back?

Surely we know their NI number?

A simple adjustment to "BR" so they pay tax for evermore on their entire earnings would recoup the fine in most cases, and also trigger some sort of response. If that doesn't work, introduce a code that says "100% tax rate". A payslip noting zero earnings would tend to attract their attention.

Austerity is not just about sacking a few bin men. It's also about ensuring that people pay their taxes.

Last time I looked, being dead, ignorant, illiterate, or leaving the country was never a sound excuse for not complying with the law or coughing up your tax.

Text deleted because people are drawing the wrong conclusions from my badly/incorrectly worded post, I was trying not to mention my accident (which with hindsight was foolish).

chewmylegoff

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

I wonder how many of these reprobates could be dealt with [far more cheaply] by simply adjusting their current year code numbers to claw the fine back?

Surely we know their NI number?

A simple adjustment to "BR" so they pay tax for evermore on their entire earnings would recoup the fine in most cases, and also trigger some sort of response. If that doesn't work, introduce a code that says "100% tax rate". A payslip noting zero earnings would tend to attract their attention.

Austerity is not just about sacking a few bin men. It's also about ensuring that people pay their taxes.

Last time I looked, being dead, ignorant, illiterate, or leaving the country was never a sound excuse for not complying with the law or coughing up your tax.

Presumably part of the trouble is that many of them are not PAYE employees.

chewmylegoff

chucknorris wrote: »

I had fines imposed on me of about 20k (I forget the exact amount it was probably a bit more) my problem was that I was working full time and running two businesses (one as a limited company, obviously with it's own tax returns, the other as a sole trader). I had no time to do anything except work, my whole life was in chaos.

I eventually faced the music and when they investigated me they actually let me off with 90% of the fines, but I paid all my tax, plus interest.

Why am I a reprobate?

Because filing a tax return is a requirement when you run a business and you should have either made time to do it or paid someone to do it for you. Would you use the same excuse for failing to pay a supplier? Sorry I'm a bit disorganised so I havent the time to pay your invoice.

Pennywise

It's HMRC so you can take the numbers with a pinch of salt.

The vast majority of what HMRC claim to be late returns were probably issued wrongly in the first place, will relate to people who are dead, or will be duplicated. Only a fraction will really relate to people who should have completed a return.

I run a small accountancy practice and this year has been the worst in over a decade for tax returns being wrongly issued. I've had them trying to fine an ex-client who died 5 years ago and a couple of returns being wrongly issued for people who shouldn't be and have never previously been in the SA system, not to mention some duplicated returns (same person different ref number) and a few issued to old addresses. I think HMRC have somehow reverted some records in their database back to a few years ago as more recent changes seem to have been lost.

HMRC are a shambles, so you can't place any reliance or importance on this kind of information they give out.

Loughton_Monkey

chucknorris wrote: »

...Why am I a reprobate?

Who can say?

A psychiatrist might put it down to your upbringing, or being bullied at school or whatever..... but that's not really important right now.

What's important, is that people pay their taxes correctly and promptly, rather than "eventually".

colsey

Wonder what the difference between unpaid tax and the fines imposed are. Are the Inland Revenue making a profit with the fines or a loss?

chucknorris

would_be_FTB wrote: »

If it's not too rude a question why was your life in chaos?

I didn’t really want to go into detail but if I had thought about it I suppose I should have realised that after saying what I did that some forum members would assume the worst (i.e. that I am some sort of criminal or trying to get away with not paying my tax). The bit about working and running businesses wasn't really the problem (although I admit that it was difficult at times keeping up), the problem was when I had an accident that changed my life.

I had a hard time recovering from a car crash, although I did not fully recover, after 4 years I did regain most of the movement to my injured left arm and right leg and can work around what is missing (I’m right handed). But for a few years I also struggled to accept what had happened and withdrew from everything that my life had been. Eventually things got so bad that I reached the bottom and somehow managed to bounce back, it wasn't easy but I managed to turn my life around and get back on track, both mentally and physically.

When the Inland Revenue realised what the problem was they were very supportive, I had been expecting them to throw me to the wolves, but far from it they were very helpful. I have nothing but praise for the Inland Revenue, I found them to be extremely helpful during that period of my life. Obviously they wouldn't have been this understanding if it had just been a case of being too busy.

EDIT: They were/are also extremely helpful at other times, I quite often discuss something with them before sending my tax return in.

withabix

I suspect that many of the penalty notices will have been sent to people who HMRC have also written to, telling them that they are not required to submit a Tax Return...