Tenant needs advice re "Notice Requiring Possession" (Section 21)

Werdnal

Colincbayley wrote: »

Not in this case, as the LL has already given notice to expire at the end of the fixed term.

Sorry I still beg to differ - S21 is a NOTICE SEEKING POSSESSION, and does not end the tenancy. Tenant is quite within their right to move out at the end of the fixed term, or before so long as they pay rent until then, but the LL cannot end the tenancy, only the Tenant or a court order can do that, so tenant still needs to give their own notice if they stay beyond the fixed term.

Colincbayley

jjlandlord wrote: »

Absolutely not.
That said, T can indeed leave at end of fixed term without giving notice, but that's completely unrelated to any s.21 notice.

WHY?

The LL has given notice to the tenant already, why would the tenant then have to give notice to the LL

Colincbayley

Werdnal wrote: »

Sorry I still beg to differ - S21 is a NOTICE SEEKING POSSESSION, and does not end the tenancy. Tenant is quite within their right to move out at the end of the fixed term, or before so long as they pay rent until then, but the LL cannot end the tenancy, only the Tenant or a court order can do that, so tenant still needs to give their own notice.

I am not in dispute about that. However, the LL has already given notice to the tenant, why would the tenant then have to give notice to the LL in this case?

Werdnal

Colincbayley wrote: »

I am not in dispute about that. However, the LL has already given notice to the tenant, why would the tenant then have to give notice to the LL in this case?

Because the LL's notice is not notice to quit and DOES NOT end the tenancy - read my reply again! If tenant chooses not to leave at the end of the fixed term an SPT kicks in.

The LL is telling in the tenant they want the property back - at some time in the future when they may apply to courts for a possession order. If they do not follow through with the eviction, the tenant can stay ad-infinitum on anSPT. Once the SPT arises, until the LL enforces the notice via the courts, the tenant's liability for the property and their obligation to pay rent continues until they, the tenant, end it by giving their own notice.

Colincbayley

Werdnal wrote: »

Because the LL's notice is not notice to quit and DOES NOT end the tenancy - read my reply again!

The LL is telling in the tenant they want the property back - ast some time in the future when they may apply to courts for a possession order. If they do not follow through with the eviction, the tenant can stay ad-infinitum on an SPT. Until the LL enforces the notice via the courts, the tenant's liability for the property and their obligation to pay rent continues until they, the tenant, end it by giving their own notice.

No not at all.

If the LL issues a S.21 notice, they are telling the tenant they require the property back. Surfice to say that they tenant does not have to leave if they do not wish to until that notice is enforced via the courts/baillif.
However, if the LL has issued the notice then the tenant can up and leave at anytime after the expiry of that notice WITHOUT given any notice to the LL ( the LL has ALREADY given notice to the tenant )

G_M

Colincbayley wrote: »

No not at all.

If the LL issues a S.21 notice, they are telling the tenant they may require the property back.

However, if the LL has issued the notice then the tenant can up and leave at anytime after the expiry of that notice WITHOUT given any notice to the LL ( the LL has ALREADY given notice to the tenant )

As others have said, you are wrong. I've added the key word above.

If the LL does not follow up with an application to the court for possession, the tenancy continues. The rent is still due. And if the tenant wishes to leave they need to end that ongong tenancy by serving notice.

Of course in most cases, the two parties would simply have a chat, agtee to end the tenancy on suchansuch a date, confirm it in writing, and part on amicable terms!

Colincbayley

G_M wrote: »

As others have said, you are wrong. I've added the key word above.

I have had this discussion before over on LLzone many years back, you may wish to research the point over there.

Ipickpumpkins

Thanks for your interest and inputs folks.

Some people have missed the point. What concerns me is the 2 month period between being served the possession notice; NOT any time after that. We want to get out asap and effectively (but incidentally) trump the landlord's notice by giving him one month notice that will end some time before the tenancy ends. But we don't want to be paying him rent for not being here.

We will take your advice and offer the landlord an early release. Failing that, i'll get awkward and pay the few bob to find out if he had consent to lease his property from his mortgage provider in the first place.

tbs624

Ipickpumpkins wrote: »

Some people have missed the point. What concerns me is the 2 month period between being served the possession notice; NOT any time after that. We want to get out asap and effectively (but incidentally) trump the landlord's notice by giving him one month notice that will end some time before the tenancy ends. But we don't want to be paying him rent for not being here.

My bolding. As has aleady been explained to you by several of the other regular posters, it is only possible to end the tenancy prior to the expiry of the FT by joint agreement with your LL. You cannot therefore "trump" the LL as you'd like to. Werdnal highlighted for you that the no-fault s21 is a notice of the LLs intention to repossess the property at some point *after* the expiry of the FT, via the courts if necessary.

We will take your advice and offer the landlord an early release. Failing that, i'll get awkward and pay the few bob to find out if he had consent to lease his property from his mortgage provider in the first place.

Many LLs would accept an early release in these circumstances, rather than risk having the T stay put after the FT expiry as it can take two or three further months before an eviction could be completed.

As has been mentioned, if your tenancy deposit has not yet been registered and you have not been given the relevant prescribed information then the s21 will be invalidated. You clearly don;t want to stay put but flaggin up a problem with the s21 may help the LL to agree to that early release.

Good luck - post back and let us know how you get on.