Help on damaged goods please

Twinkle1981

Hi help advice would be appreciated.

I brought a electric guitar from online on c.c and noticed 25 days later a crack had either appeared or could have been on from delivery as I hadn't checked it on delivery from courier I have a 3 month old baby and didn't check it I have tried to get it replaced by the shop but they refuse as it could have been knocked/dropped by myself (which it hasn't) and I had 48hrs to check it for faults and return it I thought it was 28 days ?

Where do I stand what can I do

Thank you very

Herongull

48 hours is complete nonsense!

Under Sale of Goods legislation, if you want a refund (as opposed to replacement or repair) you have "a reasonable time" to reject the goods. "A reasonable time" is not defined in the legislation, but based on court cases it is somewhere between a couple of weeks and around 6 months (depending on the context). 4 weeks is a rule of thumb - within this period can probably get a refund.

If you are happy with a repair or replacement, then as long as you are within 6 months of purchase, the onus is the seller (if he wants to reject your claim) to show there is not a problem with the goods, not on you to show there is.

If the period is longer than 6 months, the onus is on you to show that there is a problem with the the goods, not on the seller to show there isn't one.

arcon5

Herongull wrote: »

48 hours is complete nonsense!

Under Sale of Goods legislation, if you want a refund (as opposed to replacement or repair) you have "a reasonable time" to reject the goods. "A reasonable time" is not defined in the legislation, but based on court cases it is somewhere between a couple of weeks and around 6 months (depending on the context). 4 weeks is a rule of thumb - within this period can probably get a refund.

If you are happy with a repair or replacement, then as long as you are within 6 months of purchase, the onus is the seller (if he wants to reject your claim) to show there is not a problem with the goods, not on you to show there is.

If the period is longer than 6 months, the onus is on you to show that there is a problem with the the goods, not on the seller to show there isn't one.

In particular what court cases? 6 months is highly unlikely to ever be considered reasonable. 4 weeks more acceptable although it strongly depends on the fault and the goods so it's very difficult to have a 'rule of thumb' on such a time period.

I brought a electric guitar from online on c.c and noticed 25 days later a crack had either appeared or could have been on from delivery as I hadn't checked it on delivery from courier I have a 3 month old baby and didn't check it I have tried to get it replaced by the shop but they refuse as it could have been knocked/dropped by myself (which it hasn't) and I had 48hrs to check it for faults and return it I thought it was 28 days ?

Another aspect of ops query is 'acceptance'. By accepting receipt of the damaged goods and doing nothing to symbolise dissatisfaction or rejection could mean you are deemed to have 'accepted' the goods, significantly more so where the fault is obvious.

I would be inclined to tell them a crack has 'developed', rather than it arrived damaged..

The plus side, they say you could have damaged it... well, they have to be able to prove this. Within the first 6 months the fault is considered inherent unless the retailer can prove otherwise. After 6 months the onus is on you to prove the fault was inherent.

Send them a strongly worded letter which states the fault and states what you expect of them. In the letter tell them they can at their cost arrange for the inspection of the goods.

Herongull

arcon5 wrote: »

In particular what court cases? 6 months is highly unlikely to ever be considered reasonable. 4 weeks more acceptable although it strongly depends on the fault and the goods so it's very difficult to have a 'rule of thumb' on such a time period.

Court of Appeal in Clegg v Anderssen (2003)
7 months was found to be reasonable

See also J H Ritchie v Lloyd Ltd (2007)

The Law Commission Report ‘Consumer Remedies for Faulty Goods’ (November 2009, Law Com 317) recommended in normal circumstances, a consumer should have 30 days to return faulty goods and receive a refund, with limited flexibility for special circumstances, such as perishable goods, or goods which both parties know will not be used for some time

arcon5

The first case was in dispute for the 7 months from taking receipt of the goods for a number of reasons, which does not in itself symbolise acceptance of the goods in the first place.

The latter case was a simple: purchase, report fault, not happy with repair, rejected goods.

Both cases involved a dispute from receipt of goods! They do not support the argument you can simply reject goods for anything up to 6 months, they merely show acceptance wasn't accepted in the first place, since both cases involved disputes from receipt of goods.

Had the cases involved the faults developing after 6 months, then this could have in fact changed everything, allowing the seller the opportunity to repair!

I also believe the report you refer to is based around Scottish law.

Twinkle1981

Thank you so much a strongly worded letter will be sent tomorrow night really appreciated your help and any other ammo I can use would be greatly recieved xx

Techhead_2

Twinkle1981 wrote: »

Thank you so much a strongly worded letter will be sent tomorrow night really appreciated your help and any other ammo I can use would be greatly recieved xx

Why a strongly worded letter? I'm not sure you have taken the advice of this thread on board.

Put in plain language, you have probably left it too long to reject the goods out right. So whilst you have the right to a resolution, the seller has rights to (for example to inspect the guitar)

If you approach this in a confrontational way, the seller will not be inclined to help. Far better to make a simple concise statement of what exactly has happened and what you would like to happen next.

fred7777

Twinkle1981 wrote: »

a strongly worded letter will be sent tomorrow night

As you have had the guitar for less than 6 months the retailer would have to repair, refund or replace unless they could prove the fault was not inherent (ie they have to prove you caused it, not just say you could have)

The second sample letter on the which website here would seem to be appropriate:
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/making-a-complaint/dealing-with-faulty-goods/sample-letters/

Herongull

arcon5 wrote: »

The first case was in dispute for the 7 months from taking receipt of the goods for a number of reasons, which does not in itself symbolise acceptance of the goods in the first place.

The latter case was a simple: purchase, report fault, not happy with repair, rejected goods.

Both cases involved a dispute from receipt of goods! They do not support the argument you can simply reject goods for anything up to 6 months, they merely show acceptance wasn't accepted in the first place, since both cases involved disputes from receipt of goods.

Had the cases involved the faults developing after 6 months, then this could have in fact changed everything, allowing the seller the opportunity to repair!

I also believe the report you refer to is based around Scottish law.

I think you are missing the point. I didn't say that all cases have got 6 months. Read my earlier post. I said "A reasonable time" is not defined in the legislation, but based on court cases it is somewhere between a couple of weeks and around 6 months (depending on the context). 4 weeks is a rule of thumb - within this period can probably get a refund.

You replied In particular what court cases? 6 months is highly unlikely to ever be considered reasonable. As you requested I showed the relevant court cases which demonstrated that your reply was not correct.

Of course, simple cases would not get 6 months. It all depends on the situation (as I said), and it is best to reject as early as possible. Legal experts (eg Law Commission) considered 4 weeks is reasonable in most cases.

And nothing to do with Scottish Law - haven't you heard of the Law Commission?

But the time to reject is a grey area. Even if it is after 4 weeks, you can try to reject and see what the seller says. Nothing Ventured. Nothing Gained.

But as I said previously, if the OP is happy with repair/replacement the he is on stronger ground to demand this.

For a discussion of the relevant case law and its implications - see http://cw.routledge.com/textbooks/revision/commercial/good.asp