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Electric Problem - Meter confusion (young cpl)?
Hi everyone.
I've recently joined moneysavingexpert forum in search of help. Me and my girlfriend (19 & 20) moved into our first flat on the 1st June. It's the first time we've independently had to deal with domestic duties, paying bills and such.
Anyway, on our first day in our flat (one bedroom). The caretaker of our block posted through our letterbox our electricity meter readings. We set up an account with EoN and gave them this reading.
For the first two months however we've been paying an estimate reading for some reason(?) which was £38. After two months this estimate rose to £46. We duly rang EoN as we couldn't understand why it would have risen. We're rarely in, have never used the radiators and rarely have the lights on... just a few spotlights in the evening. They told us to provide them with another meter reading and they could lower the bill to match our electricity use.
Upon retrieving the requested new meter reading (16,803), we were told that the estimate we had been paying was in fact under what we had been using. We were told we owed EoN over £100.
Clearly there must be a mistake, but I'm completely unequipped with how to deal with this situation. I've checked through our bills but they never sent us out our meter reading that we provided on day one. However we did receive a letter from EoN addressed to the 'owner of the property' which states (from I presume when the property was empty before our tenancy) "You've used 0 Kwh of electricity" - "we've used your meter reading: read by you 31 May 12 - [15,392].
That would mean we've used around 700Kw per month! Ridiculous! The only thing I can presume, is that the original meter reading we received was inaccurate.
I still don't know what to do. We've yet to contact EoN back regarding this. If any experienced members could take pity on us and offer a hand it'd be absolutely brilliant. Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks very much everyone!
I've recently joined moneysavingexpert forum in search of help. Me and my girlfriend (19 & 20) moved into our first flat on the 1st June. It's the first time we've independently had to deal with domestic duties, paying bills and such.
Anyway, on our first day in our flat (one bedroom). The caretaker of our block posted through our letterbox our electricity meter readings. We set up an account with EoN and gave them this reading.
For the first two months however we've been paying an estimate reading for some reason(?) which was £38. After two months this estimate rose to £46. We duly rang EoN as we couldn't understand why it would have risen. We're rarely in, have never used the radiators and rarely have the lights on... just a few spotlights in the evening. They told us to provide them with another meter reading and they could lower the bill to match our electricity use.
Upon retrieving the requested new meter reading (16,803), we were told that the estimate we had been paying was in fact under what we had been using. We were told we owed EoN over £100.
Clearly there must be a mistake, but I'm completely unequipped with how to deal with this situation. I've checked through our bills but they never sent us out our meter reading that we provided on day one. However we did receive a letter from EoN addressed to the 'owner of the property' which states (from I presume when the property was empty before our tenancy) "You've used 0 Kwh of electricity" - "we've used your meter reading: read by you 31 May 12 - [15,392].
That would mean we've used around 700Kw per month! Ridiculous! The only thing I can presume, is that the original meter reading we received was inaccurate.
I still don't know what to do. We've yet to contact EoN back regarding this. If any experienced members could take pity on us and offer a hand it'd be absolutely brilliant. Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks very much everyone!
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Comments
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Clearly there must be a mistake, but I'm completely unequipped with how to deal with this situation.
There may (or may not) have been a mistake. The first thing to do is to get access to your meter. Ask the caretaker to point out the meter for your flat. Is it obvious to you it is the meter for your flat? Take a photograph of "your" meter. Identify the meter serial number and the meter reading. Then look for the same meter serial number on your E.ON bills. Compare the reading on the bills with the current reading on the meter. Are they same ball park?
Get a handle on your usage by taking daily readings for a week.
You need to post more "meter reading facts" for meaningful help.0 -
The readings are advancing so if we assume there is no crossed metering, the culprit could be that opening reading.
You need to consider the fact that:
- the caretaker made a mistake.
- the owner has decided to lump you with consumption for him/her or the previous tenant (if previous tenants closing bill was estimated too low) so the caretaker gave a reading lower than the one he/she could see. This would tie with type fact the previous bill shows a nil advance. For instance, old tenant moved out on 12000, landlord takes over and uses 3000kwh but doesn't want to pay and gets it closed to 12000 as billed to the old tenants closing bill which became the landlords starting reading.
Its also possible that several meters have similar readings and the caretaker made a mistake this way so its too low.
The problem for the supplier is they need to be careful with changing previously issued and potentially paid, final bills. You should monitor your consumption now by taking readings each day at the same time for 7 days to work out a daily average, but span the weekend don't do Mon-Sun because its discounts the Sun from the average and patterns can differ between weekday vs weekend. Then work this back to your opening reading and see if this is better. Then push for this.
If the meters are crossed, it needs investigation by the supplier to correct. Check your meter number with your supplier matches to the meter itself.
Snorter possibility is a 3rd party crossed meter scenario where you think its your meter but its a neighbours. This occurs where developers liable the meter tails incorrectly.:rotfl: It's better to live 1 year as a tiger than a lifetime as a worm...but then, whoever heard of a wormskin rug!!!:rotfl:0 -
The readings are advancing so if we assume there is no crossed metering, the culprit could be that opening reading.
You need to consider the fact that:
- the caretaker made a mistake.
- the owner has decided to lump you with consumption for him/her or the previous tenant (if previous tenants closing bill was estimated too low) so the caretaker gave a reading lower than the one he/she could see. This would tie with type fact the previous bill shows a nil advance. For instance, old tenant moved out on 12000, landlord takes over and uses 3000kwh but doesn't want to pay and gets it closed to 12000 as billed to the old tenants closing bill which became the landlords starting reading.
Its also possible that several meters have similar readings and the caretaker made a mistake this way so its too low.
The problem for the supplier is they need to be careful with changing previously issued and potentially paid, final bills. You should monitor your consumption now by taking readings each day at the same time for 7 days to work out a daily average, but span the weekend don't do Mon-Sun because its discounts the Sun from the average and patterns can differ between weekday vs weekend. Then work this back to your opening reading and see if this is better. Then push for this.
If the meters are crossed, it needs investigation by the supplier to correct. Check your meter number with your supplier matches to the meter itself.
Snorter possibility is a 3rd party crossed meter scenario where you think its your meter but its a neighbours. This occurs where developers liable the meter tails incorrectly.
Okay. Well we don't have access to it. We were told upon moving in that the care taker is the only person with access to it.
I wanted to phone EoN tomorrow to try to resolve this, could you suggest what I should say to them?
Should I ask the caretaker to take meter readings same time for the next seven-days? Or do I demand to see it personally for the next seven days?
My presumption is that the initial meter readings were we given were wrong and that's the reason for the massive overconsumption. But I don't know how to prove this.
Therefore what should we say upon speaking with EoN?
Thanks for the help.0 -
Okay. Well we don't have access to it. We were told upon moving in that the care taker is the only person with access to it.
I wanted to phone EoN tomorrow to try to resolve this, could you suggest what I should say to them?
Should I ask the caretaker to take meter readings same time for the next seven-days? Or do I demand to see it personally for the next seven days?
My presumption is that the initial meter readings were we given were wrong and that's the reason for the massive overconsumption. But I don't know how to prove this.
Therefore what should we say upon speaking with EoN?
Welcome to the jungle that is energy billing gone wrong:(.
If I can offer a single piece of advice it is that an account holder must assume 100% responsibility for all dealings with a supplier. This is not to criticise you (or excuse E.ON) but the supplier is not responsible for householder meter access issues. That is something you must resolve with the landlord or agent. Neither (within certain limits) is the supplier a "mind-reader" regarding the accuracy of the reading you submitted.
To get meaningful advice here you need to post the opening reading the caretaker provided which you passed to E.ON on 1 June.
I suggest you "set a trap" for E.ON by explaining you think there may have been a mistake made with the opening reading and disputing consumption above average summer consumption for the premises. I cannot anticipate the Adviser's response, but here is your second lesson. On the first occasion you are not 100% satisfied with the outcome of a contact with an Adviser you are entitled to raise a complaint strictly in accordance with the Complaints procedure available online...
https://www.eonenergy.com/~/media/PDFs/About-Us/Codes-of-Practice/codes-of-practice-2/How_we_handle_complaints_from_residential_customers.pdf
It is clear from numerous posts that "tricky problems" (sometimes easy problems:() are not resolved without recourse to the Complaints procedure. That is the course of action I recommend.
Use the period of time gained to constructively engage with the caretaker and/or property agent regarding access to "your" meter. For example, how often and in what circumstances is the caretaker on site? What arrangements are in place to facilitate meter reader access? Can other residents offer any advice?0 -
Your bill, your account, your right to acess the meter and read it yourself-so enforce your rights.No free lunch, and no free laptop
0 -
Your bill, your account, your right to access the meter and read it yourself-so enforce your rights.
In general I agree with that sentiment but what regulations can you cite in support of that right (if the caretaker/landlord/agent does not co-operate)? The Op is a householder "newbie" and needs help.0 -
Welcome to the jungle that is energy billing gone wrong:(.
If I can offer a single piece of advice it is that an account holder must assume 100% responsibility for all dealings with a supplier. This is not to criticise you (or excuse E.ON) but the supplier is not responsible for householder meter access issues. That is something you must resolve with the landlord or agent. Neither (within certain limits) is the supplier a "mind-reader" regarding the accuracy of the reading you submitted.
To get meaningful advice here you need to post the opening reading the caretaker provided which you passed to E.ON on 1 June.
I suggest you "set a trap" for E.ON by explaining you think there may have been a mistake made with the opening reading and disputing consumption above average summer consumption for the premises. I cannot anticipate the Adviser's response, but here is your second lesson. On the first occasion you are not 100% satisfied with the outcome of a contact with an Adviser you are entitled to raise a complaint strictly in accordance with the Complaints procedure available online...
It is clear from numerous posts that "tricky problems" (sometimes easy problems:() are not resolved without recourse to the Complaints procedure. That is the course of action I recommend.
Use the period of time gained to constructively engage with the caretaker and/or property agent regarding access to "your" meter. For example, how often and in what circumstances is the caretaker on site? What arrangements are in place to facilitate meter reader access? Can other residents offer any advice?
I'm definitely going to explain there must have been a mistake made with the opening reading and dispute the consumption above average summer consumption because as stated previously there's no chance we're anywhere near what they've said.
Hopefully they will comply with this and arrange something. If not I'll go through the complaints system which you helpfully supplied.
The caretaker's in Mon-Fri, so tomorrow I'll explain we're having issues with out meter readings and electricity supplier and that therefore, we need to personally check out meter for the next week or so to determine the problem.
If we monitor our consumption for the next week and it's of average consumption and not averaging the ridiculous 700kwH what recourse is there? Or does this just prove the initial meter was wrong and if so, who is liable?0 -
The caretaker's in Mon-Fri, so tomorrow I'll explain we're having issues with out meter readings and electricity supplier and that therefore, we need to personally check out meter for the next week or so to determine the problem.
If we monitor our consumption for the next week and it's of average consumption and not averaging the ridiculous 700kwH what recourse is there? Or does this just prove the initial meter was wrong and if so, who is liable?
One step at a time. First gain access to your meter, preferably take a photograph of the meter and any flat identification. Compare "your" meter serial number with the meter serial number which appears on your bill. Note the current meter reading, is it "ball park" with the bill?
Do you still have the caretaker's reading? How did you come by and on what date the "16,803" which you posted? How *exactly* did E.ON present the opening reading on your first bill? Is it the previous occupier's "15,392"?
I would not go overboard on the "ridiculous" and "impossible" argument. A badly insulated immersion cylinder left on permanently could explain that level of consumption. I don't allege that but E.ON might. Stick to whatever "facts" can be determined.0 -
One step at a time. First gain access to your meter, preferably take a photograph of the meter and any flat identification. Compare "your" meter serial number with the meter serial number which appears on your bill. Note the current meter reading, is it "ball park" with the bill?
Do you still have the caretaker's reading? How did you come by and on what date the "16,803" which you posted? How *exactly* did E.ON present the opening reading on your first bill? Is it the previous occupier's "15,392"?
I would not go overboard on the "ridiculous" and "impossible" argument. A badly insulated immersion cylinder left on permanently could explain that level of consumption. I don't allege that but E.ON might. Stick to whatever "facts" can be determined.
I cannot remember the initial reading given to us by the caretaker (1st June) but we did provide EoN with it. Then this month (two days ago) when we received the new meter reading (16,803) from the caretaker we phoned up EoN, gave it to them and they informed us of the massive amount we were being charged, because of our alleged consumption.
The only amount we have written are estimates provided to us by EoN. However a letter sent to our address states, as previously mentioned, something along the lines of "31st May 2012: Reading you provided -(15,392)" - So clearly our property agency provided EoN with this the day before we moved in which is odd. Therefore our conclusion is that they, as someone else mentioned, gave EoN a massive underestimate in hope that we would pay estimates until the end of the year and then owe EoN more money because of their possibly intentionally !!!!-up, believing it to be our own fault. This to me seems far-fetched but I can't think of anything else. But why would the caretaker keep up the lie if that's the case.
Our flat doesn't use gas just electric. We have a water heater, but we've checked the information provided to us when we moved in which states it should be left on. With only the boost button shut off, which it is. As previously stated we've never used the radiators, never use the lights bar a few spotlights during the evening, the tele's on quite a bit (but it's a telly for crissake) and we have a 20minute shower each per day.0 -
I'm sure the Eon reps will reply to this tomorrow.
To give you a non Eon supplier perspective, they will be concerned about changing any previous accounts due to your concern, even after you prove your consumption.
They also need to consider why it has occurred. The readings should be seamless between the old tenant to landlord and landlord to you. So, if each account has been closed/opened based on actual readings and you prove your daily average works backwards to create a higher opening reading, there has been an error or someone has lied. This is difficult because they have to prove this to the other account holders that that they amend to bill further consumption. Sometimes suppliers just leave a gap and write it off to avoid this and prevent you complaining.
Until you do the averages and work it back, you are flying blind.
You could ask Eon to confirm your landlord was billed prior to you if there was a gap between tenants. If they say the landlord wasn't, then alarm bells start to ring because landlords are famous for doing this and dumping their usage on tenants. Some suppliers using new software have even taken steps to automatically create landlord accounts inbetween by keeping their name in the background to prevent these issues.
Another possibility, which could combine with the above, is that the caretaker took the correct reading but for some reason, it hasn't been used. This would mean that the estimates used were too low. Estimates are easy to dispute since you can prove your consumption and work your opening readings backwards.
I don't want to discourage you, but this may need to go to a complaint since all the evidence may be against you from the suppliers point of view. That's why the calculation I suggest is needed so you at least know what your target is.
Its a tricky one to argue, it could be a simple issue with missing accounts or estimates, or it may be a lieing tenant/landlord which is harder to prove.
Need more info really, but don't stand for it and follow it through. If you the complaint route, if it reaches the ombudsman, they will look at the reality, not just the suppliers need for seamless billing.:rotfl: It's better to live 1 year as a tiger than a lifetime as a worm...but then, whoever heard of a wormskin rug!!!:rotfl:0
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