PPC Panic!

unusual

My query is in two parts!

Firstly, I received a Parking Charge Notice from Euro Car Parks on 24/07/12 with photos of my no. plates and times. I had overstayed (by 2.17 hours!) so paniced and emailed an appeal with photos of receipts, totalling £60, for the shops where the parking is.

Secondly, I now have an appeal refusal letter and on it they've mentioned that I have another Notice for 04/01/12 that is now in the hands of a debt collecting company. I went overseas on 08/01/12 and have only recently returned and have received no letters as I assume they went to my old address as I didn't update my V5C until June 2012 (I know this is 'illegal').

I have now noticed that on their letters they have addressed me with the 's' missed off my surname, does that make a difference?

My stomach is in knots wondering how much my debt now is and how to sort all of this out. Please advise!

bargepole

unusual wrote: »

... My stomach is in knots wondering how much my debt now is and how to sort all of this out. ...

Part 1) Your debt = £0.00
Part 2) How to sort this out = ignore everything they send you from now on.

Stephen_Leak

At least you didn't call it a fine, and it's not a debt either. The missing letter just proves that they can't spell. You should see some of the letters from other PPCs.

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private company or individual can't. Private parking companies (PPCs) call their tickets Parking Charge Notices, not Penalty Charge Notices. In law, they’re called speculative invoices.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract with a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any alleged breach of any alleged contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now recent landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012, HM Revenue & Customs vs. VCS Parking Control, Lower Tax Tribunal, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs (Appeal), Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In these cases, the judges ruled that only the CPO can charge for parking and take alleged offenders to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgements set legal precedents.

What should I do now?

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you owe the CPO the original charge, then you ought to write to the CPO, offering this in “full and final settlement”. In any event, you should write to the CPO, advising them that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions by either of them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. This ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, maybe, also realise the potential cost of doing business with a PPC.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off?

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it just means that they can now harass the driver instead of harassing the registered keeper.

How will they do this to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a blackmailer can't take anyone who didn’t pay them to court.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem odd to deal with something like this by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats and stop throwing good money after bad.

McKneff

You owe them a big fat zero, just ignore everything they send you.

Nothing has happened from the earlier one, and nothing will happen with this one.

Stand your ground and absolutely ignore, they are unenforceable invoices.

taffy056

You owe them nothing!

As for the first invoice you need to check your credit files to make sure they haven't had a default judgement against you. It wouldn't be unheard of parking companies putting claims in when they get their letters back marked unknown.

unusual

"Nothing has happened from the earlier one, and nothing will happen with this one."

Thanks for all your advice. In relation to the above I have moved and lived overseas for 5 months since the last charge. I am about to move again but assume they can 'follow me' once I have changed my VC5 again?!

"As for the first invoice you need to check your credit files to make sure they haven't had a default judgement against you."

Can you recommend a free check Credit agency please?

bondy_lad

all i can recommend is you stop taking this seriously, please read the stickies, you have recieved a FAKE ticket/invoice, in other words its a SCAM,so stop worrying, nothing can/will happen to you as a result of this, you are falling 100% into the trap of believing this is real,,it is not,there you go, jobs a good un eh.chill,relax,feet up,come on mo farrah.

taffy056

https://www.noddle.co.uk is free, or you can sign up to one of the main ones equifax or experian free a month instead

unusual

To Stephen Leak:

It was a '2 hours free car park' and I've since looked at the signs (there used to be a man coming round but I didn't realise they are now using cameras) I know I shouldn't have overstayed but they make these shops like casinos, without windows so you have no idea how long you've been in there!

taffy056

unusual wrote: »

To Stephen Leak:

It was a '2 hours free car park' and I've since looked at the signs (there used to be a man coming round but I didn't realise they are now using cameras) I know I shouldn't have overstayed but they make these shops like casinos, without windows so you have no idea how long you've been in there!

As someone who worked in casinos in the past it's a pretty good description it makes no difference in this case though so just ignore them

bazster

It's a strange sort of "offence" isn't it: spending too long in a shop spending money.