"proof of posting" "no responsibility"

RHemmings

Once in a while I search on ebay (including listing body) for the terms in the subject. This brings up listings, some but not all of which will have terms such as this:

Returns policy

Returns are accepted if we are contacted within 7 days of the sale. Item(s) must be in resalable condition. Once opened, we will not be able to return the product(s). Item(s) lost or damaged during transit will not be returned. We will issue a refund equal to the sale price of the product(s). Postage &packaging charges will not be refunded. Refund will be issued on delivery of the Product(s) to us. International Sales: We dispatch to Europe, USA, Canada and Australia & from London, UK under the following terms: 1. We will dispatch all International Orders via Royal Mail Airmail (Small Packets) or another service specified and paid for by the Buyer. 2. We will obtain a Proof Of Posting/Certificate Of Posting to prove that we have dispatched the sold item/items to the Buyer. 3. We accept no responsibility, and no refunds will be given, if the item/items lost, damage or do not arrive at their given destination.

While I haven't kept exact numbers, the number of auctions found by that search don't seem to be going down.

Is it a case of many sellers not knowing their responsibilities? Or knowing them but still using such T&C?

soolin

I think sellers are trying it on, although reading the community boards there are still some sellers who post indignantly saying buyers actually expects them to persue a claim with RM- and that is 'disgraceful' or even 'illegal'.

There was one a week or two back whose fairly expensive item had gone astray and basically had argued the toss with the buyer for days and had a paypal case for INR opened against them. Posted to say that buyer had said that if paypal didnt refund him then he would take seller to court- and seller triumphantly responded with 'see ya in court then sucker' as he was so convinced paypal would back him as he had a COP.

regulars soon put him right, although we had to go down all the usual routes of 'that has to be illegal' and what do the courts think about buyers claiming non receipt when they haven't asked for tracking- etc.

Only yesterday I found a competitor selling similar items to me in the collectable categories. they are registered as a private seller, yet have a trading name, they charge a flat postage of £4.95 for items that go as a packet at £2.20. Their disclaimers include the usual 'not responsible fo rlosses unless you pay for special delivery' and also a more amusing one 'if you don't like my postage then don't bid and by bidding you are signing to say you agree to leave me 5*. If you don't leave 5* then ebay will remove your rating and give you a strike'. Hmm, I don't think I need worry too much about that competition.

Crowqueen

They must realise of course that the law cannot uphold an unfair contract. I wouldn't buy from anyone like that, but it is disturbing that there might be plenty of people who do.

RFW

I've often wondered the same thing. It's amazing how many companies have in their terms and conditions items that are not enforceable or downright wrong.

I've not checked but I suspect it wouldn't take too much to find a large mail order company having something similar somewhere on their pages.

Major high street stores and supermarkets regularly get prosecuted for breaking some small law or other in an individual store, from health and safety to consumer law.

I think anyone in a selling business should get as much information as they can as to what they can and can't say or do. There are plenty of public bodies that will give the information free of charge so no reason to be ignorant of the laws, which are largely grounded in common sense.

Without thinking of the law anyone who put "will not be held responsible for items lost in the post" immediately makes me think they aren't going to bother posting it, or if they get proof of postage will just post something else. It makes them sound like an unworthy seller.

Crowqueen

With the internet, and companies who can afford top-flight lawyers, it should be a no-brainer.

The stamps category is full of sellers with those sort of terms - it is difficult not to buy from people like that, but I guess there are very few outright frauds and stamps are very light packets that can easily go through a letter box, meaning that possibly losses are very, very few. What surprises me is that there has also been no particular downward pressure on postage either - I regularly buy three or four lots at once just to make it worth my while.

Makes me wonder just what stamps buyers will actually put up with.

RHemmings

I have seen cases posted (but please don't ask me to find the actual links) where a buyer has an item not received from a seller with T&Cs like that. But, when they email to say INR, the seller actually does handle the situation properly by refunding or replacing with no quibbles. That sort of situation makes me think that those (far from all) sellers know the T&Cs are wrong, but hope that some buyers will just take it on the chin.

soolin

I've just found someone else in the collectable category trading against me- I do wish they would even up the field a bit:

'xxxx- antiques' (but selling as a private entity)

PLEASE NOTE THAT SOME ITEMS ARE STATED AS BEING USED AND MAY HAVE SOME IMPERFECTIONS

We always try and keep costs as low as possible

Please note that the postage cost is not just the price of the stamps, but also includes the necessary administration, packing materials and transport costs to our nearest post office.

I KEEP ALL POSTAGE RECEIPTS and get individual receipts for each item posted .....

Should there ever be a problem with the non receipt of an item then there is nothing I can do until a period of 15 days from the date of posting has elapsed. I will then make a claim - supplying the neccessary details and information in the claim form for the missing parcel and its contents

soolin

that one still has 4.7 for p and p despite charging about double the postage costs on most items. Only has one neg as well and showing 99.5% overall

Penny-Pincher!!

As a seller it is our responsibility to make sure the purchased item is received at the other end.

RHemmings

soolin wrote: »

I've just found someone else in the collectable category trading against me- I do wish they would even up the field a bit:

'xxxx- antiques' (but selling as a private entity)

PLEASE NOTE THAT SOME ITEMS ARE STATED AS BEING USED AND MAY HAVE SOME IMPERFECTIONS

We always try and keep costs as low as possible

Please note that the postage cost is not just the price of the stamps, but also includes the necessary administration, packing materials and transport costs to our nearest post office.

I KEEP ALL POSTAGE RECEIPTS and get individual receipts for each item posted .....

Should there ever be a problem with the non receipt of an item then there is nothing I can do until a period of 15 days from the date of posting has elapsed. I will then make a claim - supplying the neccessary details and information in the claim form for the missing parcel and its contents

Surely T&C like that (making the buyer wait) will advantage you over them. As savvy buyers will recognise that your T&Cs are reasonable, and theirs aren't?

soolin

RHemmings wrote: »

Surely T&C like that (making the buyer wait) will advantage you over them. As savvy buyers will recognise that your T&Cs are reasonable, and theirs aren't?

They do have a very poor sell through rate but start at very high prices. As they appear to be using FLW they can afford to just keep relisting .