Debt after death

ttoli

Try posting on one of these sites;

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/

http://www.cyprusliving.org

Buzby

opinions4u wrote: »

Your post, while perhaps well intentioned, is a shocker under British law.

Which will come as a surprise to any lawyer who is fully aware there is no 'British' law. Scotland has it's own process as does NI. If you are being explicit, I assume you mean law that is relevant to England and Wales only?

Anthorn

opinions4u wrote: »

Except there is. The debt is the responsibility of the estate. In the case of joint debts, the survivor usually takes on responsibility for the whole debt.

While some lenders may freeze interest there is no compulsion for them to do so. The estate remains responsible for debt, interest and maintaining payments.

Seems about right.

This isn't necessarily the case. Joint policies and policies held in trust do not form part of the estate.

A joint debt will pass in its entirety to the survivor.

Preferably a Cypriot one.

Your post, while perhaps well intentioned, is a shocker under British law.

Your response is in general nit-picking and very small points. The estate cannot be managed and debts cannot be settled until an executor is appointed. As the OP has stated, an executor has not yet been appointed. There are whys, wherefores and what is considered reasonable and what is unreasonable and the circumstances to be considered.

By your reasoning a penalty and a default could be applied because the deceased has not kept up with payments. That's ridiculous and would probably be laughed out of court!

redpete

Anthorn wrote: »

Your response is in general nit-picking and very small points.

I reckon 4 out of the 7 points you made are wrong - a little more serious than "very small points" and could lead to someone incurring unnecessary hassle and legal costs that would be easily avoided.

triple_choc_chip

Did your husband have an accountant for the business? If so they will understand the business better than you and will be able to finalise the accounts, deal with the tax issues and the banks for you (or advise you what to do/say), and liaise with solicitors. This would take much of the stress away. Good luck.

Anthorn

redpete wrote: »

I reckon 4 out of the 7 points you made are wrong - a little more serious than "very small points" and could lead to someone incurring unnecessary hassle and legal costs that would be easily avoided.

Ok let's consider the question of joint debts: With some debts each party is responsible only for their part and not the part of the other parties. The other party is only reponsible for the whole debt where there is a written contract or agreement which states "joint and several liability". In the case of the OP there is no such agreement according to the information supplied.

Similarly, in the case of an owned home it would depend on whether the two parties are "Tenants in common" or "joint tenants". In the case of "Tenants in common" the half of the property that was owned by the deceased goes to their estate and the half which was owned by the surviving party stays in their estate. In the case of "Joint tenants" the part of the property that was owned by the deceased is then owned by the surviving party who then owns the whole. The only way that creditors can touch the property is if they take out an insolvency order and split the property in half.

So to sum up a very long post, there are different kinds of joint debt and different kinds of jointly owned property. But whatever I, you and anyone else says is the law are mute points: They have to be decided in a court of law which will take account of the circumstances.

I believe my post is correct according to the case of the OP and the information supplied.

opinions4u

Buzby wrote: »

Which will come as a surprise to any lawyer who is fully aware there is no 'British' law. Scotland has it's own process as does NI. If you are being explicit, I assume you mean law that is relevant to England and Wales only?

You are of course correct. Although the Scots and Northern Irish have virtually identical laws to England and Wales in this matter.

Anthorn wrote: »

Your response is in general nit-picking and very small points.

Many of them were pretty serious and significant errors on your part.

The estate cannot be managed and debts cannot be settled until an executor is appointed.

But certain matters can be handled prior to the issue of probate or letters of administration.

As the OP has stated, an executor has not yet been appointed. There are whys, wherefores and what is considered reasonable and what is unreasonable and the circumstances to be considered.

the most significant here being the laws of Cyprus.

By your reasoning a penalty and a default could be applied because the deceased has not kept up with payments. That's ridiculous and would probably be laughed out of court!

But the charging of interest wouldn't be.

Anthorn wrote: »

Ok let's consider the question of joint debts: With some debts each party is responsible only for their part and not the part of the other parties. The other party is only reponsible for the whole debt where there is a written contract or agreement which states "joint and several liability". In the case of the OP there is no such agreement according to the information supplied.

We don't know either way. But in the UK it will be "joint and several" in 99% of cases. In Cyprus? No idea.

Similarly, in the case of an owned home it would depend on whether the two parties are "Tenants in common" or "joint tenants". In the case of "Tenants in common" the half of the property that was owned by the deceased goes to their estate and the half which was owned by the surviving party stays in their estate. In the case of "Joint tenants" the part of the property that was owned by the deceased is then owned by the surviving party who then owns the whole. The only way that creditors can touch the property is if they take out an insolvency order and split the property in half.

The property remains at risk if a mortgage is in arrears.

I believe my post is correct according to the case of the OP and the information supplied.

It isn't. It didn't even mention Cyprus.

molerat

opinions4u wrote: »

........................... the most significant here being the laws of Cyprus ...........................

Which seems to be the point that many replies are ignoring.

jamesd

The following reply only applies to English law. You definitely need local advice.

Debts in the sole name of a deceased person are the responsibility of their estate. After paying costs for funeral and administration, including executor costs, the balance of the value of the estate is first used to settle the debts, then the remainder is distributed according to the will or intestacy rules.

Most UK insurance payouts do not go into the estate, they are normally paid to a nominated recipient. A pension policy would do this via an expression of wishes form.

Your greatest medium term complexity is the ownership of the property, which appears to be split between you in some way and potentially be available to clear some of the debts of the estate after a sale. In the UK this would be handled, if possible, by the survivor using insurance payouts or taking a larger mortgage to cover the needed amount without selling the property. Or they could sell and move to a smaller place. But it's vital to establish how much if any of the property he owned as his share.

Under English law I'd suggest not signing any loan agreements in your own name to settle any debt of his because you would not be the responsible party for debts in his name. The executor has to handle that and later you might end up using borrowing yourself. Only bad things would happen from you borrowing and paying off debts in his name, since that makes your position worse with unnecessary debts and payments for you.

Don't sign a loan agreement, get local advice. Best wishes.:)

Alassia

opinions4u wrote: »

While some lenders may freeze interest there is no compulsion for them to do so. The estate remains responsible for debt, interest and maintaining payments.

For me, this is the crux of the matter and why I worry that, if I do nothing, it will only get worse.