Engine Oil

razorfox

I have a diesel Ford Smax 2.0 TDCI 58 reg and some time ago someone here recommended a low sap oil that is better for DPF, it was Total Quartz Ineo ECS. Now further looking into this I've found Mobil 1 ESP also is a low sap oil. Both have ACEA C2 specs.

So my smax was last serviced with Ford Oil (this is 5w30 im talking about by the way) and this is rated with ACEA A5 B5 which is obviously different. Thing is you'd think the ford oil would obviously be the right stuff but I have my doubts and I'm getting highly annoyed by what is in reality a trivial issue hence why I'm posting to vent!

Anyway! Reading this from the AA (scrolling down)

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/engine-oils-viscosity-and-specification.html

You'd be more inclined to use Total or Mobils low sap 5w30.

I've topped it up with Mobil 3000 fe 5w30 which is A5 prior to this knowledge which I'm sure is fine.

Anyone have any views on this and what oil do they use for their diesels with dpf?

You'd think ford would do a low Sap oil for their own car if its considered better!

Thanks

A disgruntled dude!

razorfox

Well the manual states spec WSS-M2C913-C or SAE 5W30 ACEA A5/B5


To totally pee me off further

Notmyrealname

Why would the grade of oil matter in respect to the DPF? The DPF is for exhaust gases.

razorfox

Maybe bad english there, my apologies, I didn't mean for a DPF but better for a car that has a DPF. Can't answer your question but if you read about low sap oils they mention DPFs

atrixblue.-MFR-.

razorfox wrote: »

Maybe bad english there, my apologies, I didn't mean for a DPF but better for a car that has a DPF. Can't answer your question but if you read about low sap oils they mention DPFs

there is nothing oil type can do to help aid a DPF, this is purely marketing.

DPF collects soot from exhaust gasses and burns it at a cycle nothing more nothing less and nothing will help it do its job.

many oils are tested in a engine before its put into production and run in test enviroments at a lab, if the oil isnt listed for the car its best not to put it in there, such as 20w 50 in a zetec engine, you use zetec spec oil or you could encounter fried piston ring premature turbo failure (oil fed) sticking valves and hydraulic lifters.

GolfBravo

Your car is equipped with a Peugeot Citroën Moteurs DW10 engine - the correct oil spec for this particular engine is ACEA 2007 C2 and A5/B5.

So the Ford engine oil is A5/B5 which relates to the long life (fully synthetic) and viscosity grade (low), A = petrol, B = diesel. This is fine for this particular engine.

However, this is not good enough for the DPF - it requires low sulphur engine oil, C2 (C = catalyst compatibility). To cut the long story short, sulphur produces ash which accumulates inside the DPF slowly killing it, hence the requirement for low sulphur engine oil.

The ACEA C1/C2/C3/C4 standards were established about five years ago, however most engine oil manufacturers didn't actually produce any low sulphur engine oil until around 2009-2010. And then most dealers are clueless - they don't buy engine oil in 5l containers, they bulk buy it in hundreds or even thousands of litres, and their workshop oil dispensers usually carry only two types of oil. At this stage they are just not interested in low sulphur engine oils.

So in theory you should use the low sulphur engine oil to extend the DPF life.

Is your car using any oil? If it isn't I wouldn't worry about it. If it is then buy some Total Ineo (Mobil 1 ESP is just insanely expensive IMHO) before the next service and ask your dealer to use it instead of the standard stuff.

BTW, Ford obviously doesn't make any engine oil, it is just a rebranded third-party oil with a nice (motor industry standard) 400-500% profit margin.

PS
ACEA specs

hareng

Slightly off topic where a producer recommends a certain grade ie 10w/30w or 5w/30w i have found its better to use 0w/30w as it warms up quicker but still retains the main viscosity.
0w/40w i did notice a degree of sluggishness but sounded much smoother.

s_b

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

there is nothing oil type can do to help aid a DPF, this is purely marketing.

DPF collects soot from exhaust gasses and burns it at a cycle nothing more nothing less and nothing will help it do its job.

many oils are tested in a engine before its put into production and run in test enviroments at a lab, if the oil isnt listed for the car its best not to put it in there, such as 20w 50 in a zetec engine, you use zetec spec oil or you could encounter fried piston ring premature turbo failure (oil fed) sticking valves and hydraulic lifters.

oh dear
so youve never heard of low ash oil
bad bad advice

forgotmyname

Wont this low ash only matter when the engine is burning the oil?

atrixblue.-MFR-.

s_b wrote: »

oh dear
so youve never heard of low ash oil
bad bad advice

i am aware of low ash oil, i used to work in a motor factors selling the stuff daily well not daily as the price of it then was dearer than reccomended spec oil.

you have to find the right balance, some low ash oils can actually be harmfull to a cat converter!, so while trying to prevent the life of one you run the risk of damaging the other. so its neither here nor there what oil you put in it.

drive style will kill it quicker than the oil will, and lets face it, a DPF will die when it wants to anyway no matter how much you try and drive to preserve it or put sap oil in to prevent it.

the mesh inside is thin and fragile, the exhaust heats up to stupid temps in regen mode, then cools off again, what happen to thin metal when heated then cooled periodically?

forgotmyname a modern brand new car will burn some oil and more and more as it gets more and more worn it unavoidable.

razorfox

I actually emailed Mobil about this not expecting a reply but they did;

Here's what they said;



Hi,

this model calls for using engine oil that meets WSS-M2C-913B, which was a Ford specification for Diesel engines, and which has been superseded by Ford WSS-M2C-913C. Ford WSS-M2C-913C specification is based on ACEA A1/B1
plus additional Ford requirements. I agree Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 is lower SAPS engine oil, wich is obviously better for DPFs in general,
however there is much more in ACEA than just sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulphur. ACEA consists of several laboratory and performance tests and the limits for specific tests are publicly available. They can tell you much more than just comparing sulphated ash (for example there is a minimum total base number of 8 mgKOH/g for ACEA A1/B1 while C2 is nor regulated etc...). We do not know the details of parameters in scope of additional requirements and testing performed by Ford, but they do have their reasons
for not recommending low SAPS engine oils for their DPFs. From the user's
perspective - I'd feel more comfortable using oil that meets the manufacturer's requirements, than the one other users recommended on the internet. Please also try to understand our position, as a company producing and selling oils, we have to solely base on manufacturers' recommendations. You can also contact Ford and ask them for their opinion.




Contact Ford? Ha fat chance with a reply! Appreciated the mans acknowledgement to my query though