Hinchingbrooke Hospital

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I work at a university and we have a procurement team to get the best deals on the things we order by the truckload; stationery, chemicals, lab consumables etc. I would point out that it's not all about cheapness though. One of our big suppliers of electrical components is more expensive than competitors, but offers free next day delivery, a really efficient technical helpline and a no-hassle returns service.

ILW

It is only when procurement managers start getting the sack for overpaying that anything will change.

noodle_doodle

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I work at a university and we have a procurement team to get the best deals on the things we order by the truckload; stationery, chemicals, lab consumables etc. I would point out that it's not all about cheapness though. One of our big suppliers of electrical components is more expensive than competitors, but offers free next day delivery, a really efficient technical helpline and a no-hassle returns service.

That's the rub innit? What an employer wants is an optimal solution overall, not the cheapest, but while optimal is easy to calculate and enforce for a small concern, for a big firm cheapest is easiest to measure.

On top of that, if for a dept head, all that matters is getting their spending down, but getting a cheaper supplier in inevitably causes problems for people in other depts, well tough, that's somebody else's problem.

PS My employer has gone for some nasty grey recycled paper for bulk printing. yuk.

ILW

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I work at a university and we have a procurement team to get the best deals on the things we order by the truckload; stationery, chemicals, lab consumables etc. I would point out that it's not all about cheapness though. One of our big suppliers of electrical components is more expensive than competitors, but offers free next day delivery, a really efficient technical helpline and a no-hassle returns service.

BUT
Are other organisations getting a better deal from this supplier than you are?

From my experience, public sector genarally pay more for identical goods and services, due to their procurement deprtments being rather useless.

Pennywise

ILW wrote: »

BUT
Are other organisations getting a better deal from this supplier than you are?

From my experience, public sector genarally pay more for identical goods and services, due to their procurement deprtments being rather useless.

Hit the nail on the head. It's standard practice to have higher "headline" prices in price lists and catalogues and then to negotiate a discount. Some inexperienced or uninterested procurement departments will think it's great to "negotiate" 20% discounts from list price, yet, in reality, other firms may be getting 50-75% discount. All you need to do is look at office stationery catalogues to see this in action - no-one in their right mind would ever pay the so-called RRP or list price! Without proper experience in the real world, procurement staff won't know a good deal if it slapped them in the face. Brilliant for the staff to report to management that they've secured a 20% discount but what isn't reported is that the discounted price is still double the price they could have achieved by shopping around more!

Wookster

zagubov wrote: »

There's a danger we'll end up with a system that's not fit for purpose except as seen by the accounts department. There's too many bean counters, and as inb so much of economic activity tails are wagging dogs.

Nothing wrong with bean counters, infact many of the problems we find ourselves in today results from not appropriately accounting for expenses & liabilities.

Not to mention that Karl Marx famously said: Economics trumps politics.

Pennywise

zagubov wrote: »

There's too many bean counters

Not so much as too many bean counters - more like too many incompetent bean counters and too few who are properly qualified and experienced.

A good accountant will be concentrating on value and returns - not just on the bottom line. I will often suggest, if not encourage, businesses to spend/invest more to get a greater return rather than advise on the race to the bottom! Rather than look at absolute numbers, I usually look at each "cost" and consider the value or return generated. It's only the costs that don't seem to generate any value that I recommend being cut, or where the same value can be generated from doing something different, i.e. different supplier etc.

I think you'll find that it's useless middle management who are the ones who engage in the cost cutting race to the bottom in the same way as the asset strippers.

A good accountant is worth their weight in gold to any organisation - a bad or incompetent one can bring it down. Sadly a lot of people are given the title of "accountant" or "finance manager", especially in the public sector, who aren't actually properly qualified/experienced to do the job and take the lazy option of just cutting rather than the more demanding analysis, proper understanding and evaluating of the organisation.

Wookster

Pennywise wrote: »

A good accountant is worth their weight in gold to any organisation - a bad or incompetent one can bring it down.

Their weight in platinum you mean!

The NHS also has the habit of only recruiting people with prior NHS experience... well how are efficiencies ever going to be gained if people keep doing exactly the same things they did before?

gnus

antrobus wrote: »

I did some work for an NHS trust yonks ago putting in a purchasing system. Yea gods, the amount of money that you can save just by doing things properly.

I agree. I've worked in the private and public sectors. Seeing the incompetence and massive waste within an NHS Trust was an eye opener of epic proportions.

I was dealing with the aftermath of a contract that was so biase in favour of the supplier, the NHS Trust was getting financially screwed at every turn. It was down to incompetent management and a system full of "yes" men who wouldn't rock the boat incase they lose their well paid jobs.

Hitchinbrookes always had problems. Building a new outpatients on PFI certainly did no favours for them financially.

RenovationMan

Wookster wrote: »

Heard the CEO of Circle (the private company which runs the hospital) talk on Today this morning.

He claimed that £1.6M had been saved simply by the way in which the hospital buys paper. If this is true then it is absolutely shocking and indicates the waste that could be cut out.

He also pointed out that the cleaners were cleaning non patient (offices / admin spaces & residences) areas more frequently than patent areas, another shocking point if true. Unions have criticised the cut in cleaning staff (!)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19073700

The NHS does need a does of small company private sector efficiency. Not the G4S kind, but the small, lean private sector kind.

Graham Devon is doomed if they bring this in, his productivity levels for the NHS are zero due to his MSE forum addiction.

It's all very well everyone being (rightly) outraged, but no one does anything about it. You could all get on Graham's back about his NHS waste and yet you guys say nothng. Shame on you! :mad: