First Capital Connect Fine help needed

jonuk7

Good Morning,

Sorry it is a long post but im really after some "Appeal Writing" advice...


on the 28th July myself and 3 friends were going to London to watch the olympic Cycling, i had previously rung up the national rail helpline and enquired regarding trains prices etc, we were quoted a train with FCC that left Peterborough at 08:18am, this fit with our joining service as that got into P'boro at 08:16, we went through the prices and he said as there was 4 adults we could get a groupsave 4 ticket which would be £9 each for a return ticket.. this was brilliant and beat the othertrains by £30-£40, i asked if i could buy the tickets in P'boro or on the FCC train to London and he said he would advise because of the short time we had between our train arriving at P'boro and the London one leaving the best option was to buy the tickets ON the train.

We left on Sat morning, got to Peterborough and made itacross to the First Cap train to London KX, the train left on time (08:18) we got all the way to London without ANY Ticket Officers, The voice that announced each station was a computer and so had gone all the way with No "security"on the train,No "Ticket inspectors" NOTHING, we arrived in KX and went straight to the "Unpaid Tickets" desk to get the tickets etc and so we could leave KX, When we got to the desk we were met by 6 staff all staring and crowded round us, we explained we couldnt get the tickets in P'boro as the time between trains was too little and that i had confirmed all the details and options to buy tickets with the helpline the night before, IMMEDIATLEY one of the staff members replied with "YOUR LYING" to which we were all a little shocked surely if we were lying wed of said we got on nearer to London for cheaper tickets... He went away and came back and said "Ive spoke to my supervisor who thinks your ALL LIARS too so will be charged a penalty fair, You will not be able to buy the ticket you were quoted and in stead its 2 x the price of a single ticket so you have to pay £58" Again i tried to explain none of us were trying to avoid a fare or mislead anyone i even showed them our tickets from our home station to Peterborough to prove thats where wed come from and returning too, Again we were called Liars and the rest of the staff there were closed right in on us making it a VERY intimidating time.

He said the only options were:

1) Pay £58 and thats the end of it.

2) Pay £29 and well take your name and address and you must pay/appeal the remaining £29 within 21 days.

3) Dont pay anything and appeal or "Face the consequences" within 21 days

As were were not been listened too and there was no reasoning etc we elected for option 2 as we were always out to buy a ticket just not given the chance so effectivley option 2 showed this albeit more expensive than the original £9 each.

They took our name and address's but then also rang a number who happily confirmed that was my name and address then they let us out the barriers and away....

My argument is:

1) We confirmed with the helpline that buying a ticket at P'boro OR on the train was absolutely fine, the train then had NO staff at all by the look of it apart from a driver, now this to me is ridiculous especially on day 1of the olympics a train DIRECT into Kings Cross had no staff or security in place!

2) The staff at KX were very rude, arrogant and chose to tell us we were LIARS despite showing other tickets etc of where we had come from and explaining there was NO STAFF on the train and no more than 1 monute to get from train to train so via the other side of the station to the ticket office wasnt within time.

3) After they took our name and address who do they ring that happily just gave out my details to them to "Confirm" i was that person at that address without my permission or telling me who they were ringing..?

4) Lastly when i paid the £29 i first tried topay by card, i put my pin in and then he gave me my card back but said it had declined, didnt think much too it at first definatly had money there but i have had probs before with my card and train ticket machines sometimes not going through straight away, i paid in cash but it wasnt until i had left the station and was across London i thought that he never showed me the "declined" screen, and never gave me any receipt or anything to say it had declined...

Andof topic a little but all of the staff members could barely speak english let alone understand what we were telling them there was numerous times they looked at each other trying to explain to themselves what we had said...

This is probably the busiest train station for people in the UK to arrive into London and yet the most unprofessional staff ive ever come across not to mention the lack of staff etc ON THE TRAIN for 100 miles!

What would you guys do next??

Thanks

choc_mouse

It appears you have been misinformed by National Rail. According to First Capital Connect, you have to buy tickets before boarding the train otherwise you get a penalty fare notice.

Why do you operate a penalty fares scheme?
We expect all of our customers to purchase a ticket before they board our trains.

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/tickets-and-fares/peak-tickets/penalty-fares/

In my experience on London services going north east, staff on trains are only doing spot checks. There is no reason for them to be there as they don't even serve refreshments these days. If you need assistance, you should get off at the next station or in emergencies, talk to the driver using the emergency intercom.

Almost all stations on the busy commuter routes are manned and have ticket machines which means you are expected to purchase the ticket before boarding. That's the purpose of the ticket barriers and why there are now barriers when you get off at KX - reduces the need for staff to check on trains.

You should have been able to purchase the relevant tickets at the start of your journey or in advance to save you any hassle.

I understand you acted in good faith, had no bad intentions and I hate when you are accused of something when you are clearly not. But it seems you and your friends were in breach of FCC conditions. You should have called them directly to ask for information.

I would suggest:
1) Writing a letter of complaint to National Rail for the incorrect information.
2) Writing a letter of complaint to First Capital Connect for the strong, inappropriate behaviour of their staff at KX, not properly dealing with a declined card transaction and reluctantly pay the remainder of fine*

*Check your bank statement to make sure you haven't already been charged. Always ask for the declined receipt if the card has been declined.

Lavendyr

Hi Jon, can I suggest you get yourself onto Twitter and send a tweet to First Capital Connect - @FirstCC - they are usually very helpful on there at resolving these things and you will get a more personal response on there!

Best of luck

dzug1

There's also the problem that a 2 minute connection at Peterborough is not 'legal' - ie it's not an official connection. The minimum is I think 8 minutes. I wonder if that aroused suspicion at Kings Cross?

You should have been able to buy the Groupsave tickets at your local station at the same time as you bought the tickets to Peterborough - or if it was unstaffed on the local train, Most stations can sell tickets from any station, not just themselves.

But yes you were misinformed and should follow it up.

luckwudaveit

I can't see which station you originated your journey at? You have been clearly mis-advised by NRE, but I wonder if your train from your originating station may not have a ticket office and NRE meant for you to purchase your ticket on that train?

In any case, a 2 minute connection is below the minimum connection - I have missed longer connection times there and had to wait for the next FCC service, usually just shy of an hour's wait. NRE should not have advised you to catch this service, but to wait for the next one, thus also giving you time to get tickets, if you hadn't got them previously at your originating station on the first train.

FCC operate their trains with just a driver, but occasionally there are ticket examiners to catch those without tickets.

geordieracer

choc_mouse wrote: »

2) Writing a letter of complaint to First Capital Connect for the strong, inappropriate behaviour of their staff at KX, not properly dealing with a declined card transaction and reluctantly pay the remainder of fine*

*Check your bank statement to make sure you haven't already been charged. Always ask for the declined receipt if the card has been declined.

Depends what card was used as the Avantix machines will not accept any cards and therefore do not give a declined reciept.

I reckon what the NRE staff member has done is get confused between East Coast and FCC ability to purchase on board which is terrible as they were telling you about an FCC service in the first place.

Write a letter of complaint to both parties.

Also go write your post HERE so you can get solid advice from those within the industry.

Mrs_Ryan

I would cancel your card, and make sure you tell the bank its been potentially compromised so it will go down as stolen. I've heard of this happening and then card fraud happening. Thats not to say the staff were dishonest but you cant be too careful.

jonuk7

Thanks for the advice everyone, as I say we weren't trying to evade a ticket and not pay but the staff were disgraceful, I've sent a letter to national rail, FCC and east coast as they were our first train to P'boro, appeal letter also sent so will see what happens, I'd be happy with an apology to be honest and waiving the extra £29 ontop of the ticket they charged even though we should of got a £9 return they made £80 extra off us by not letting us by a group save ticket plus then a return ticket each at another £12 each..

We didn't get tickets at the originating station as we left at 07:44 and the ticket office doesn't open until 9am here and we don't even have a ticket machine here, the lady on the train to P'boro couldn't do the ticket to London as that company don't offer the groupsave and she couldn't issue tickets for FCC apparently. plus we weren't too worried as the NRE helpline guy said we could buy on the train itself.

See what comes from the letters sent.