Nursing Home Fees

monday23

My parent has been in a nursing home for several years in NI. They are self-funding (they do get attendance and the nursing allowance) but have deteriated over the last year. If resident in any other country within the UK they would be entitled to be assessed for continuing care nursing whereby their fees if assessed as eligible would be paid in total by the NHS as their primary need is now health care. After various enquiries I have found out this doesn't apply in NI, residents have to pay fees no matter how poorly their condition unless they have assests of less than a certain amount. Can anyone confirm this is the case, enquiries I have made have drawn a blank, no one seems to know what I am talking about when I mention continuing care?

mrsrwallace

hi, i know nothing about this but would your health trust be able to advise you? or maybe someone from CAB? failing that you could direct your query to the health minister's office here? Someone is BOUND to know up on the hill

whiteside

I can appreciate your frustration. What's most ridiculous is that those self funding get exactly the same care as those who are funded by the local authority.
The lesson to be learned here for older people especially with families is to get rid of any large sums of money/assets either by blowing it on themselves or giving some to children/grandchildren etc. otherwise it could well turn out that your live savings/house etc that in most cases they would want their kids to have as inheritance is eaten up at over 2 grand a month by some money grabbing, blood sucking private care home.
These homes normally pay their care staff minimum style wages and then pocket large profits. And their idea of care is usually to plop the resident into a tv room all day.

travellinglight_2

beware, if you knowingly give away property and money to avoid charges and they make a case then your family may have to pay anyway as you've done this to avoid legitimate costs.... vv complicated. Get legal advice early. share your house with relatives and sort out power of attorm=ney? tho this name may be enuring power of attorney??? talk to one of charities for older perople in ni for advice or Law centre.

troubleinparadise

Dear Monday23,

I'm afraid I don't know the exact position re NHS CHC funding in NI, but I believe there is no national policy as such, it is up to local Health and Social care trusts as to whether assistance is given.

Yes, you can be assessed in England (again, not sure how it works in Scotland and Wales), but it is very rarely approved of. And even if agreed to, there are continuing assessments which re-visit all the areas to see if changes, even if a deterioration, means that the patient now no longer meets the criteria - in which case that funding would be withdrawn.

And given the state of budgets now, it is becoming progressively harder to be granted CHC.

So whilst it sounds great, it is not given easily (and certainly in the area of dementia very very rarely), and not without a great deal of effort on the part of the families involved over many months. Nowt for owt.....

monday23

Thanks to all. I should add that I have already written to the local MP of my parent, who has forwarded my question to the health minister. He did reply more or less saying that there were no guidelines and it was up to the local health board but no help or advice on how to do this. When I contact the health board they don't know what I am talking about. Back to the health minsiter me thinks! I was just interested if anyone had actually managed to get further than this and what these local health board criteria might be. I am fully aware of the situation in England and feel very confident that they would qualify, even if they didn't at least we would have gone through a criteria based process. Yes I do agree with your assessment of the majority of 'care and nursing homes' whiteside!!

elliemoo

Basically in NI if you have cash/savings over the threshold or capital such as property then you have to pay in full until your resources come down to the threshold limits.

Here is a really good article on the position in NI


http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/northernireland/oyb/factsheet_nursing_residential_care_2012.pdf

I too am going through this minefield with an elderly relative and to be honest find the whole thing soul destroying.

Good luck

monday23

Thanks Elliemoo, useful article. and as you say the whole process is soul destroying!

McKneff

whiteside wrote: »

I can appreciate your frustration. What's most ridiculous is that those self funding get exactly the same care as those who are funded by the local authority.
The lesson to be learned here for older people especially with families is to get rid of any large sums of money/assets either by blowing it on themselves or giving some to children/grandchildren etc. otherwise it could well turn out that your live savings/house etc that in most cases they would want their kids to have as inheritance is eaten up at over 2 grand a month by some money grabbing, blood sucking private care home.
These homes normally pay their care staff minimum style wages and then pocket large profits. And their idea of care is usually to plop the resident into a tv room all day.

You really should educate yourself and google 'deprivation of assets' and also have you have been in some of these care homes, most of them have the most caring staff you can imagine, you really shouldnt make sweeping comments without knowing exactly what you are talking about.

whiteside

McKneff wrote: »

You really should educate yourself and google 'deprivation of assets' and also have you have been in some of these care homes, most of them have the most caring staff you can imagine, you really shouldnt make sweeping comments without knowing exactly what you are talking about.

Hmmmm. I don't need to google anything thank you very much. I am simply giving my opinion that anyone getting on a bit out there considers giving some assets/cash away now voluntarily to their familes. That is not deprivation of assets so get off your high horse. Are you saying that older people can't do what they want with their money? Do you own a care home by any chance?
Regarding the care I was referring to the private care homes owners etc, not the care staff themselves who I agree on the whole are very good. However when you have one carer for every 10/15 patients or whatever then it doesn't leave much time for personal care now does it? That is a reflection on the management not the carers.
And lastly regarding "have I been in one of these care homes" I am in one daily to visit so the answer would be Yes.

McKneff

whiteside wrote: »

Hmmmm. I don't need to google anything thank you very much. I am simply giving my opinion that anyone getting on a bit out there considers giving some assets/cash away now voluntarily to their familes. That is not deprivation of assets so get off your high horse. Are you saying that older people can't do what they want with their money? Do you own a care home by any chance?
Regarding the care I was referring to the private care homes owners etc, not the care staff themselves who I agree on the whole are very good. However when you have one carer for every 10/15 patients or whatever then it doesn't leave much time for personal care now does it? That is a reflection on the management not the carers.
And lastly regarding "have I been in one of these care homes" I am in one daily to visit so the answer would be Yes.

You do need to google Deprivation of Assets, no, people cant give their own money away, no I dont own a nursing home.
If you give money away, and then want to claim benefits you will be refused, simple as that because you will be assessed as if you still had the money so family will be expected to pay for the care, simple as that.

I suppose all care homes are monitored or certainly should be, certainly firstly by the family of the person who are putting a member of their family in there.
If you visit daily and your parent was in the care of someone who had someone caring for them who had another 10 to 15 'clients' and you didnt like it, then raise an objection if you dont like it, which you dont seem to do or move them,