Dispatches and Panorama programmes about Atos.

dark_lady

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Dispatches and Panorama programmes about Atos.
On Monday 30th July Dispatches are broadcasting a programme about Atos called Britain on the Sick and Panorama are broadcasting their version Disabled or Faking it on the same night.
Dispatches is on Channel 4 at 8pm.
Panorama is on BBC2 at 8.30pm.

More details here.....http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...assessors-film

Richie-from-the-Boro

Ta! Dark Lady

Parva

I shall be watching these with great interest, thank you.

harveybobbles

We had an A TOS(SER) DR earlier in the year for the OH's DLA. so i'll be watching..

clairet1961

harveybobbles wrote: »

We had an A TOS(SER) DR earlier in the year for the OH's DLA. so i'll be watching..

I've just had one of theose A Tos(SER)s myself!

rogerblack

To return to a theme I've gone on about before.
ATOS is not the sole, or even major problem in the system.
The regulations and procedures ATOS have to follow to determine someones fitness for work is the large part of it.
Including the limited time they have.

ATOS 'doctors' (health care professionals) have in my experience been more competent with the way they deal with my case than the DWP and tribunals service.

Too many people are blaming ATOS for things they have no control over whatsoever.
For example, people with cancer who are not likely to die within 6 months, and who are not undergoing injectable chemotherapy are unlikely to qualify for ESA.
This is not ATOSs fault, but that of the government who passed the regulations.

I understand that some people with cancer may be quite fit to work, the above is one example where ATOS lacks discretion as to how reasonable it is to expect someone to work.

ATOS have been commissioned solely to tick the boxes the government has supplied.

grummps

rogerblack wrote: »

To return to a theme I've gone on about before.
ATOS is not the sole, or even major problem in the system.
The regulations and procedures ATOS have to follow to determine someones fitness for work is the large part of it.
Including the limited time they have.

ATOS 'doctors' (health care professionals) have in my experience been more competent with the way they deal with my case than the DWP and tribunals service.

Too many people are blaming ATOS for things they have no control over whatsoever.
For example, people with cancer who are not likely to die within 6 months, and who are not undergoing injectable chemotherapy are unlikely to qualify for ESA.
This is not ATOSs fault, but that of the government who passed the regulations.

I understand that some people with cancer may be quite fit to work, the above is one example where ATOS lacks discretion as to how reasonable it is to expect someone to work.

ATOS have been commissioned solely to tick the boxes the government has supplied.

Like everything else governments have done, Labour and this shower are both alike, they do have a nasty habit of moving the 'dirty' work out of their remit which gives them the ability to criticise what they used to do themselves and have a 'no blame' attitude.

Moving part of the DWP work away to the Councils for example - with a budget minus 20%. If things go wrong - blame the council!

I don't know what the intended purpose of these programmes are, but there will be an answer from ATOS/DWP that denies all.

As for the government making changes because of them - dream on!!

As has already been said, those that aren't claiming these benefits will say that the scroungers and leeches deserve everything they get and that ATOS/DWP are trying hard to cut down on fraud. No one from that group gives a damn about benefit claimants - much the same as the public's perception of bankrupts before 2000 - they were considered as scum and should have been put into prison.

As for those that are claiming these benefits, none of what will be on the television will be 'new'. It will be a re-hash of old news. We all know what is going on, but no one, who matters, gives a damn!

I'm not wasting my time watching them.

Richie-from-the-Boro

rogerblack wrote: »

To return to a theme I've gone on about before.
ATOS is not the sole, or even major problem in the system.
The regulations and procedures ATOS have to follow to determine someones fitness for work is the large part of it.
Including the limited time they have.

ATOS 'doctors' (health care professionals) have in my experience been more competent with the way they deal with my case than the DWP and tribunals service.

Too many people are blaming ATOS for things they have no control over whatsoever.
For example, people with cancer who are not likely to die within 6 months, and who are not undergoing injectable chemotherapy are unlikely to qualify for ESA.
This is not ATOSs fault, but that of the government who passed the regulations.

I understand that some people with cancer may be quite fit to work, the above is one example where ATOS lacks discretion as to how reasonable it is to expect someone to work.

ATOS have been commissioned solely to tick the boxes the government has supplied.

It depends how you define blame, I make three observations :

.1. ATOS and every one of their apparatchiks are certainly to blameURL="https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4070035"]see#13[/URL. Good medically trained staff are fully employed and don't or won't work for ATOS, less good are unemployed or underemployed and are likely to work for ATOS

.2. rogerblack is a good person, I agree on 99% of almost everything he says, it will not come as a surprise to him that that on this I disagree so intensely I give my reasons here.

.3. ATOS is employed to do an axe job for GOV-UK with a product called LiMA that is designed to save Mi££ions for the treasury and is nothing whatsoever to do with medical conditions or disabilities. Its a treasury driven chain saw designed to cut huge swathes of costs from the Welfare budget. ATOS are not there to get it right they're there to get it done for the Mi££ions they are paid, a private company driven entirely by the profit motive has no morals whatsoever and in health practitioner terms their apparatchiks have no URL="https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3940545"]see #11[/URL Hippocratic oath or even Duties of a doctor left within their moral compass.

- """ATOS is not the sole, or even major problem in the system""" - true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe
- """Too many people are blaming ATOS for things they have no control over whatsoever""" - true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe
- """its not ATOS's fault, but that of the government who passed the regulations"" - true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe
-"""ATOS have been commissioned solely to tick the boxes the government has supplied"""- true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe
-"""If ATOS was sacked, and another company brought in to do the same thing"""- true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe

ATOS the company came and .. .. one day will went .. .. history will always remember that the CONdems both did this to their citizens, and that ATOS wielded the axe. I hope every child of this nation in future years knows and remembers that their parent / auntie / uncle / whoever took dirty money for doing this to the disabled - they [ATOS and their apparatchiks] are to blame !

# apparatchiks / a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization or corporation.
# blame / To hold responsible / To find fault with / To place responsibility for (something)

GlasweJen

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

It depends how you define blame, I make three observations :

.1. ATOS and every one of their apparatchiks are certainly to blameURL="https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4070035"]see#13[/URL. Good medically trained staff are fully employed and don't or won't work for ATOS, less good are unemployed or underemployed and are likely to work for ATOS

.2. rogerblack is a good person, I agree on 99% of almost everything he says, it will not come as a surprise to him that that on this I disagree so intensely I give my reasons here.

.3. ATOS is employed to do an axe job for GOV-UK with a product called LiMA that is designed to save Mi££ions for the treasury and is nothing whatsoever to do with medical conditions or disabilities. Its a treasury driven chain saw designed to cut huge swathes of costs from the Welfare budget. ATOS are not there to get it right they're there to get it done for the Mi££ions they are paid, a private company driven entirely by the profit motive has no morals whatsoever and in health practitioner terms their apparatchiks have no URL="https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3940545"]see #11[/URL Hippocratic oath or even Duties of a doctor left within their moral compass.

- """ATOS is not the sole, or even major problem in the system""" - true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe
- """Too many people are blaming ATOS for things they have no control over whatsoever""" - true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe
- """its not ATOS's fault, but that of the government who passed the regulations"" - true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe
-"""ATOS have been commissioned solely to tick the boxes the government has supplied"""- true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe
-"""If ATOS was sacked, and another company brought in to do the same thing"""- true, but they took the 20 pieces of silver and wield the axe

ATOS the company came and .. .. one day will went .. .. history will always remember that the CONdems both did this to their citizens, and that ATOS wielded the axe. I hope every child of this nation in future years knows and remembers that their parent / auntie / uncle / whoever took dirty money for doing this to the disabled - they [ATOS and their apparatchiks] are to blame !

# apparatchiks / a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization or corporation.
# blame / To hold responsible / To find fault with / To place responsibility for (something)

Isn't ESA a labour policy?

speedfreek1000

GlasweJen wrote: »

Isn't ESA a labour policy?

We live in a politic system where by there is only one party (with one goal) split into three divisions saying the same thing using differentiated word semantics.

The real driver for all this is UNUM and has been vigorously pursued via them since Peter Lilly in the 1990s (may be earlier).

Peter Lilly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Lilley

UNUM influence on Social Security Advisory Committees

http://www.meassociation.org.uk/?p=9217

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/16847

They've had two very senior directors on every committee ever since just look at the papers/meetings and they are referenced.

We are now using the bio-psychosocial model for disability in deciding benefits which came out of the UNUM sponsored department at Cardiff University

http://www.dpac.uk.net/2012/04/a-tale-of-two-models-disabled-people-vs-unum-atos-government-and-disability-charities-debbie-jolly/

The last thing if you are still not convinced is to look at the lawsuits UNUM have and are facing in the US and the reasoning behind them.

http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/unum/lawsuits

If you have a look here at the criteria for if you have a claim against them the denial tactics look rather like the ESA WCA process

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/lawsuit/first_unum.html#.UBY985LpX3Q

The removal of legal aid for claimants (our only defense) basically opens up the way for a full privatisation of sickness benefits, leaves us open to the abuse that happened in the US and leaves them free to opperate with impunity from challenges.

A nice little earner as they say!

Edit just to make it clear once the ESA method is fixed in place UNUM will have the private health insurance market by the proverbial balls. They are playing the long game and will be/are fully backed and joined by the rest of the insurance industry in this. We'll basically see an exact repeat of what's happened in the US.

Richie-from-the-Boro

I agree with everything that sppedfreek1000 says, and that's just the tip of the iceberg, the current Olympics declarable is just one of them. On speedfreek1000's comment on the 'removal of legal aid' you should really have a look at Djanogly maybe thats why he needs these gates to avoid potential reprisal attacks.Other areas to look at might include undeclared interests & conflict of interests. And yes your last line on insurance..

Now to what I said three threads ago - did anyone watch Dispatches and Panorama tonight ? about ATOS apparatchiks being just that apparatchiks.

# apparatchiks / a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization or corporation