access to the property for upgrades vs right to quiet enjoyment

Dagmar72

rpc wrote: »

This is for Scotland.
What is your ish date? The tenancy can only be ended on this date. The NTQ can give you 40 days notice, but the Section 33 (and AT6) must give you 2 months..

And no, I didn't receive a Section 33 notice either, so does that mean I could wait till October to tell them that, which means by then I've earned myself an extra 2 months' stay in the flat?

rpc

The ish date is the end date of the tenancy.

So your tenancy can only be ended on the 20th of a month, the two month's notice must be received on or by the 20th otherwise it is one day short.

I am not familiar with difficult evictions (only orderly ones where notices are correct and tenants comply) - I suspect you can wait and then spring this on them. They cannot get a court order if they did not follow the rather strict process.

Info on the requirements for notices, and sample notices, at
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/926/landlords-advice_and_support/438/to_end_a_tenancy/3

Dagmar72

rpc wrote: »

The ish date is the end date of the tenancy.

So your tenancy can only be ended on the 20th of a month, the two month's notice must be received on or by the 20th otherwise it is one day short.

I am not familiar with difficult evictions (only orderly ones where notices are correct and tenants comply) - I suspect you can wait and then spring this on them. They cannot get a court order if they did not follow the rather strict process.

Info on the requirements for notices, and sample notices, at
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/926/landlords-advice_and_support/438/to_end_a_tenancy/3

Thanks rpc, and I don't want to be seen as a bad tenant, I've always tried to be a good tenant in the past and got nothing in return except being f****d over by greedy landlords (had one of them coming in to repaint the whole flat, even though I was working nights, and sleeping during the daytime, I had to sleep on the sofa whilst he was painting the bedroom, and the minute the work was finished I got the notice to quit), it's difficult for me to work out what to do...

The new owners could have told me of their intentions back in January when I first met them and they assured me they were happy to keep me as a long term tenant, but then they would have had the risk of me finding somewhere in-between, which means they'd have a big gap where they can't even find a tenant!

Now it seems they lied to me, so I don't have a problem trying to f**k them up, The letting agents themselves have been great, it's just the owners of the flat that are d**ks. Do I play nice and try and keep the letting agents on my side so I have more of a chance of getting a new flat (only problem being I can't afford one until late December / January at the very earliest), or do I become a d**k myself and play all my cards to stay here as long as possible (which could probably stretch till January since they've already f**ked up the notice and served it one day late, and haven't got a court possession order yet either), at the risk of pi**ing off the letting agents and not being offered alternative flats and not being given a good reference either?

Dagmar72

As I said before, I don't want to be seen as a "problem tenant", I've always paid my rent on time and left the property in a good condition, the problem is finding an agency / landlord who will go by that and not insist on stupid references...

rpc

Please don't think I was getting at you with the "difficult evictions" comment - it was intended as a dig at your LL.

If notice is not correctly served, the tenancy cannot be brought to an end by the LL.

Double check all you documentation, if you are still certain the notice is not correct then wait. The Notice to Quit is probably in time (40 days needed minimum) but with no Section 33 (2 months needed) and no proper service there is no way to get you out. This is the case as I understand what you have said. Shelter and CAB can check your documents.

Work out when you want to leave and give your own notice correctly based on that date. Your notice period may be stipulated on the contract or it may be 28 days by default. I doubt the LL will be able to get this to court (they won't have the required documents to submit) but if they do then you can easily defend it. You will not get a good reference, even though it is their mistake.

You could, if you wanted, write to the LL shortly before their 'notice' expires to highlight that it is incorrect and to give your own notice. If you give notice to quit, it would be daft for them to spend money re-serving notice on you.

Unlike England, it would be unwise of the LL to do anything other than follow the lawful procedure as they could get their licence revoked. That doesn't mean that they won't make some noise once their 'notice' expires, but if it gets beyond "why haven't you left" "your notice was incorrect" then get the council and police involved.

Dagmar72

rpc wrote: »

Double check all you documentation, if you are still certain the notice is not correct then wait. The Notice to Quit is probably in time (40 days needed minimum) but with no Section 33 (2 months needed) and no proper service there is no way to get you out. This is the case as I understand what you have said. Shelter and CAB can check your documents.

Aaargh, so I double-checked, and the second sheet does say "notice under section 33", so all that's left for me to argue is the actual date, although the notice does say 21st October, which is incorrect as the ish date should be 20th.

rpc

Dagmar72 wrote: »

so all that's left for me to argue is the actual date,

and the method of service. Recorded delivery and Sheriff Officer are the only acceptable means.

You could be proactive - write to the landlord saying that you received this notice after the deadline and ask them to clarify the method of service and the date they believe it was served. However that may alert them and get notice re-served if it is incorrect. If you are certain of your position, best to stay quiet for now.

It does sound as though the dates are incorrect, which will means the notice fails. If the agreement started on the 21st, it cannot come to an end on the 21st as that is the first day of a new period. And if they didn't serve the notice by approved means then it fails doubly.

At this stage, you could double check everything with Shelter. You could speak to your LL or keep quiet. If you want to stay until December, you can defeat the current notice based on dates and service method. Or you could abide by it and move out (although there is no obligation to do so).

You could also post the details here
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?20-Scottish-Rental-amp-Legal-Issues
I'm pretty sure you have a good case but no harm in getting a second opinion! (unless artfullodger comes along)

Dagmar72

rpc wrote: »

and the method of service. Recorded delivery and Sheriff Officer are the only acceptable means.

You could be proactive - write to the landlord saying that you received this notice after the deadline and ask them to clarify the method of service and the date they believe it was served. However that may alert them and get notice re-served if it is incorrect. If you are certain of your position, best to stay quiet for now.

It does sound as though the dates are incorrect, which will means the notice fails. If the agreement started on the 21st, it cannot come to an end on the 21st as that is the first day of a new period. And if they didn't serve the notice by approved means then it fails doubly.

At this stage, you could double check everything with Shelter. You could speak to your LL or keep quiet. If you want to stay until December, you can defeat the current notice based on dates and service method. Or you could abide by it and move out (although there is no obligation to do so).

Thanks, I like to think I'm probably too nice to leave it till the last minute, when they're ready to move in, which is why I'd rather mention it sooner rather than later, but the truth probably is, I can't live with incertitude and I like to be able to plan ahead...

If it looks like I'm definitely gonna have a gap between flats, I'll need to put my stuff in storage and go and visit friends and family for a while, so I'll need to book travel, etc. in advance, and also buy a laptop so I can work whilst on the move, and make other arrangements for work.

At the same time, if I tell them now that I'm not gonna go without a fight, I'm kind of hoping they might be desperate enough to move in to offer me enough cash to make sure I move out by 20th October. I'd say the equivalent of 3 months' rent would be enough for me to find a new place by then, but then again, it's not something I want to leave till the last minute (even though I'm sure I'd have more of a bargaining power by then) as I don't want to be in a rush looking for flats again and taking something I'm not completely happy with just because I'm desperate and don't have much choice!