If requested

Old_and_decrepit

does the landowner have to supply a copy of his agreement with his authorised Parking Enforcement company to any member of the public who requests one?
And if the landowner fails so to do, does this invalidate the stated terms and conditions as applicable to the said member of the public?

esmerobbo

No they do not have to show a confidential contract to anyone. However if they issued a claim the PPC would need to produce proof that they could bring action.

Any T&C's they tried to enforce would need to be displayed in a way that you should be able to see them when you parked. Also of course not have within said T&C's any unfair conditions.

AltheHibby

I have a quick follow-up question to esmerobbo's reply:

Does there have to be a full postal address on the signs for the driver to "agree" the contract with? I should know the answer, but don't.

esmerobbo

AltheHibby wrote: »

I have a quick follow-up question to esmerobbo's reply:

Does there have to be a full postal address on the signs for the driver to "agree" the contract with? I should know the answer, but don't.

Sadly no only the registered office, and as we know that's normally an accountants.
However it would be interesting as some use a post drop so a request to inspect documents would be interesting!
I think the BPA advise a geographical number should be entered on their signs!

"New Trading Disclosure Regulations – Displaying Your Company Name

New trading disclosure regulations came into force on 1 October 2008 replacing existing requirements and introducing some important new duties and some changes to the existing law.
A company must display its registered name at its registered office, and any inspection place, as well as any location where it conducts business (unless that location is primarily used for living accommodation). The registered name must be visibly obvious to any visitor to the premises.

In addition, the company’s registered name must appear on most of its business communications, including business letters, cheques, websites, orders for goods or services, bills, invoices and other demands for payment; and the following particulars must be disclosed on business letters, order forms and websites:

the part of the where the company is registered;
the company’s registered number; and
the address of the company’s registered office.
Furthermore, if a written request for information is made to a company, it must disclose details of its registered office, any inspection place and details of the company records kept at that office or place. This information must be provided within 5 days of receiving such a request.

Failure to comply with the regulations can lead to a maximum fine of £1000 (plus £100 a day for continued contravention) for both the company and each officer (including shadow directors) of the company that is in default. "

Ozne

Another related question - how does one find out who owns the car park?

ManxRed

Land Registry, there may be a small fee, but can be added on to any claims that may be being made in relation to it. Or ask the council who pays the rates on it.

Old_and_decrepit

esmerobbo wrote: »

No they do not have to show a confidential contract to anyone. However if they issued a claim the PPC would need to produce proof that they could bring action.

Any T&C's they tried to enforce would need to be displayed in a way that you should be able to see them when you parked. Also of course not have within said T&C's any unfair conditions.

What I was trying to establish was if we could see the landowner/PPC agreement we would know before actually parking there whether the PPC was entitled to proceed to court action as the agent of the landowner.

esmerobbo

Old_and_decrepit wrote: »

What I was trying to establish was if we could see the landowner/PPC agreement we would know before actually parking there whether the PPC was entitled to proceed to court action as the agent of the landowner.

Well since VCS V HMRC I don't think landowners or PPC's know what the situation is.
I have seen a couple of PPC contracts and they are rather shabby articles to be honest.

There is nothing actually stopping you asking a landowner what authority a PPC has to offer parking and enforcing parking restrictions, but I would wager all they would say is they are acting as our agents.

I really do doubt if many landowners such as supermarkets and big retailers would welcome a PPC issuing a claim in their name. I cant recall seeing a claim for a supermarket, seen a couple for retail parks, but I don't know if the landlords knew they had been issued.

I would wager if it involved them having to be present or be represented at a hearing they would not be best pleased.

One point worth considering is that if you sent for a copy of any terms and conditions of a car park, and then went on to gain an invoice from that car park it would be difficult to argue that you did not know the terms and conditions of parking. Although there are other hurdles they have to clear to win.

WageSlave1_2

AltheHibby wrote: »

I have a quick follow-up question to esmerobbo's reply:

Does there have to be a full postal address on the signs for the driver to "agree" the contract with? I should know the answer, but don't.

This may be of interest . . .

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2009/9780111486276/contents

Old_and_decrepit

Thanks esmerobbo.
The landowner I am really concerned about in this instance is a National Health Trust Hospital. Have you any records on such landowners? And the PPC is ParkingSolutions24.

AltheHibby

Thanks wageslave.

It looks like a full postal address is a requirement and that PO Box addresses don't meet the requirements. If so, all their signs are invalid on that point alone.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2009/9780111486276/regulation/7

Also, 8, (1), (c) and (g) would fail the signs as they must be "easily accessible to the recipient at the place where the service is provided or the contract for the service is concluded" As I don't have an internet contract on my mobile then a website address doesn't meet the regulations.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2009/9780111486276/regulation/8

Just another reason not to pay.