landlord access

James_N

There's always a great deal of discussion about this, and part of the problem is the negative idea that renting gives in GB. Renters seem to resent renting, and landlords distrust their tenants. Partly this may be down to the "home owner" culture we've grown up with.

How do these practical aspects work in Spain, France or Germany (say), where renting is less "marked" as a social indicator?

ilovecheese

I will be keeping an eye on this thread, because it is a really good question! We often hear on the forum that it is so much better to rent in other countries, so I would like to know how it works!

I have recently moved in to a new rental house, and the agency conduct inspections every 3 months!!! I find this quite insulting to be honest.

Between us, myself and my husband have lived in houses for 93 years, so we pretty much know how it works!

We have been renting for 5 years, and have recieved the full deposit back from all 4 properties, and we are more than capable of looking after our home and reporting any problems that arise.

I sometimes feel that LL/agents think you are second class citizen or stupid becasue you choose to rent rather than buy

theartfullodger

You;'ve seen this (very long) thread on the subject???
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?26589-L-s-right-of-access-for-inspection-or-viewing

PasturesNew

You also have to put up with things the way they are... no scope to change something that's not working for you, the big/annoying and small/annoying stuff.

James_N

theartfullodger wrote: »

You;'ve seen this (very long) thread on the subject???
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?26589-L-s-right-of-access-for-inspection-or-viewing

This long and interesting answer sets out what I would expect: that in the UK a LL has an express or implied reasonable right of access to a property, and as long as this is reasonable, a court would not deny this. However, some tenants clearly want to be "difficult", and some LL naively or sinisterly take this too far.

That being so, what is to be done about the kneejerk "change the locks" brigade and the "my LL wants to visit, where do I get a lawyer?" brigade, or the more reasonable "the LL is coming round and telling me I can't [keep things in boxes] [insert any activity or living routine].

It's quite clear that there are sometimes significant abuses by LL that need swift attention, but equally that in the course of a normal let, it would be quite reasonable to expect access to a property, and that this can be of benefit to both sides.

But it was practice abroad I was mainly interested in.

SternMusik

James_N wrote: »

There's always a great deal of discussion about this, and part of the problem is the negative idea that renting gives in GB. Renters seem to resent renting, and landlords distrust their tenants. Partly this may be down to the "home owner" culture we've grown up with.

How do these practical aspects work in Spain, France or Germany (say), where renting is less "marked" as a social indicator?

I can comment on the practice in Germany, where landlords normally don't have keys to the property once it is rented out (i.e. tenants change the locks). They cannot access the property, and I don't think 'inspections' or the like even exist. The landlord has no rights to enter the property unless the tenant invites them in. Basic maintenance is carried out by the tenant, and boiler inspections are arranged by the landlord in agreement with the tenants (as far as I know).

I should say that rental contracts in Germany are long-term by definition (eviction is very difficult), and many tenants stay in their home for decades, install their own kitchens, paint the walls etc. It is their _home_, and a landlord coming along 'to see how things are going' would be seen as very intrusive and unacceptable. Tenants enjoy similar rights to homeowners, thus the low percentage of owners compared to renters.

theartfullodger

James_N wrote: »

This long and interesting answer sets out what I would expect: that in the UK a LL has an express or implied reasonable right of access to a property, and as long as this is reasonable, a court would not deny this. .................. ...t ...

Err.. no...


Well, up to a point yes but nobody seems to be able to quote any case that got to court in-front-of-a-judge.

Chances are if T refused (as they have an absolute right to..) LL can apply to the court, but the date of his judgement is likely to be similar to/later than that of any Section 21 eviction.. (S21 courtesy Thatcher..). MANY other jurisdictions do not have anything as draconian & anti-tenant as S21.

There are undoubtedly better (from LL PoV) legal structures elsewhere and also better (from Tenant PoV) structures.

You do not ask of one closer to home, bonnie Scotland.

There I think changing locks is unlawful, but again what would LL do: There is a formal body (PRHP) for sorting out disputes between LL & T, and also LL must be registered (£50k max fine if not..), tenancies must be written & witnessed (England less than 3 years can be verbal), tenant must be 3 or more months owing rent before mandatory eviction route can be used (2 months in Ingerlund..), landlord responsible for some ASB actions of tenant (can have rent withheld if he fails to sort things out..). In England you have 8 (6?) years to recover any debt through court order, in Scotland 20 years: And the debt goes up 8% pa!! Where else can you get that rate of return??

G_M

James_N wrote: »

How do these practical aspects work in Spain, France or Germany (say), where renting is less "marked" as a social indicator?

Out of interest, what is the reason for the question? Seems unlikely you are trying to find out to help with a move abroad given that 3 countries are mentioned.

Are you planning a political campaign to change English/Welsh rental law? Or doing social science research? or....

James_N

G_M wrote: »

Out of interest, what is the reason for the question? Seems unlikely you are trying to find out to help with a move abroad given that 3 countries are mentioned.

Are you planning a political campaign to change English/Welsh rental law? Or doing social science research? or....

it's a useful question, and moves us away from specific tenant landlord horror stories, which skew any discussion.

G_M

Ah. Not sure how it is useful except for people moving to Spain, France or Germany (say).

More useful is clarifying LL's rights of access in this country (for landlords on this site) and tenant's rights to quiet enjoyment (for tenants on this site).

Which of course has been done ad infinitum.

theartfullodger

James_N wrote: »

....... tenant landlord horror stories, which skew any discussion.

Ah, the tenant landlord horror, couldn't agree more. Yes, never have a tenant who is also a landlord: they know too much about their rights.....