Iffy speeding ticket (IMO)

z1a

Long story, short as possible -
Acquaintance of mine was riding a motorcycle through a town (30 limit) following another bike, about 300 yards before speed limit changed to 50, they went past an unmarked car with a laser speed checker pointing out of the rear window. car was pointing in their direction of travel. As soon as they hit the 50 limit the front bike was away. Bloke on rear bike looked in his mirror to see the police car behind him with blues on, so he pulls over thinking he wanted to pass, but the copper pulled him up.
He was asked who was on the black bike, he said he didn't know. Copper said he clocked the lead bike at 49mph in 30 limit, but didn't get his number as he went past, but in he's "expert" opinion" second bike was keeping pace with lead bike, therefore he was ticketing him for 49mph.
Copper said, take it to court if you want, but I'd advise you to take fixed penalty now, which he did!
Don't know about anybody else on here, but I would have taken it to court, how can you target 1 vehicle, then do another because you didn't catch the reg. number of the targetted vehicle?

Trebor16

There have been cases of a similar nature in the past where a group of riders have been charged with the same speed based on the speed reading of one bike and the opinion of the officer. I don't recall the outcome but I would suggest they may have a better idea at www.pepipoo.com.

gkerr4

that can't be right can it - basically, "that other unknown rider was speeding, therefore you must have been also"??

eh - i have a motorbike in the garage, would that officer conclude that i was speeding too?

the Americans would call this "unconstitutional" - i just think it stinks.

think your mate should have had some legal advice on that one.

z1a

I think it's too late to take legal advice now, as he accepted the fixed penalty notice, as he has a clean license and can stand 3 points.
Not actually my mate, but a mate of my brother, who thinks like I do, that he was daft to accept it.

Trebor16

Has he paid the fixed penalty notice and sent his licence in?

z1a

Don't know, would have to ask brother tomorrow.

TonyMMM

It isn't the usual way of doing things, but could well result in a conviction at court. As Trebor16 says measuring the speed of one rider in a group of bikes travelling together has been used before.

If he hasn't already paid and surrendered his licence he would have to decline the offer of the fixed penalty and would then get a summons to court. Ultimately the court would decide whther the method used was sufficient to prove he was exceeding the limit (note that is all that needs to be proved - not that he was doing any specific speed above the limit).

Bearing in mind the fine (if found guilty) in court may be substantially higher, dependent on his income, and with the addition of costs and victim charges then taking the FPN may be the sensible option.

z1a

Have just rung my bro', he doesn't think he has sent anything off yet, but will point him to "pepipoo" anyway.
He wasn't travelling in a group of riders, he was alone, the bike in front was nothing to do with him, he just ended up behind him until he was left at the edge of town.
BTW, it was apparently a silver Volvo s40 estate, in Settle, so if you're from that area be aware of it, not that any of us MSE'ers speed!!

Joe_Horner

TonyMMM wrote: »

It isn't the usual way of doing things, but could well result in a conviction at court. As Trebor16 says measuring the speed of one rider in a group of bikes travelling together has been used before.

One possibly critical difference in this case is that, as far as I remember, in all previous ones the bike that was actually clocked has been identified and confirmed as part of the group.

Would have thought that a defence in this case of "so what bike did you get the reading off? Without even a reg number how can the court even know it was the one was following, if it even existed?" would introduce pretty reasonable doubt.