Shower problems

enived

Our power shower recently stopped working, and we paid a plumber £500 to fix it. Within this he replaced the pump (an external one which sits in the airing cupboard), and changed around some pipes in the attic which apparently had been installed incorrectly previously. He also split the pipes leading from the ceiling to the shower and installed some sort of washer. All of which took the plumber in the region of 5 hours to do.

Now I thought that was fairly reasonable as the shower was working, and everything was fine and he did work for ages. However, a week later we had the same problem. The plumber came out again, opened up the washers on the pipes and released trapped air. He said that air might get trapped again as the thermostat is quite old. If it does happen, he said to call him and he'll install a new one at a cost of £200.

That was 2 months ago, and surprise surprise, the shower has stopped working, and it's making the same noises as it has the last 2 times it broke!

My question is, do I go back to the same plumber or is he fleecing me? £700 seems incredibly steep for a shower, and I wonder if he even needed to replace the pump in the first place? I'm tempted to just get a spanner and open the washers up myself (I can do basic DIY so not confident!), but will I invalidate any guarantee the work has done (work is guaranteed for 2 years)?

Any advice would be gratefully received!

NB: I found the plumber on checkatrade and have very little experience of hiring tradesmen.

cyclonebri1

I don't think his 2 year warranty is worth an awful lot considering your experience.

Get him back in on any pretence (maybe you want a new thermostat?), and ensure there is someone, with no disrepect, there who knows how not to be !!!!!!!!ed, and get him to fix it.:mad:

This is what gets the trades on here annoyed, a trader, probably an inept trader, taking a scatter gun approach and fleecing the householder in the process, whether intentional or not.

keystone

Repetition of the same problem twice kinda indicates that he didn't rectify it in the first place but I can't criticise the pump replacement directly as that may have needed doing anyway. The only thing I can say is that in my experience it is highly unlikely that a failure of the thermo cartridge in the shower valve would lead to an ingress of air.

Please describe in detail the noise and the circumstances in which it occurs.

Please also describe in detail how the system is piped. By this I mean where the hot water supply is derived from on the cylinder and how the pipework is routed to the pump including descriptions of how it may go up or down and across. Same, same the cold supply from your roof tank.

Please explain what "splitting the pipes from the ceiling to the shower". By this I mean how as it before and how is it now. Have you any idea what pipework was changed in the roof?

I have an idea what the problem is but am not going to share it right now (yah boo ) firstly in case I'm wrong but more importantly some more information from the 'orses mouth is need to even begin to arrive at a diagnosis unseen and over a distance.

I take it from your stating that he gave a two year warranty that he didn't charge you for the second visit?

Cheers

PS I'm going to suggest to the admin team that they either lock or remove your repeat thread. Otherwise you'll get conflicting responses.

cyclonebri1

He/she will anyway;):D

But the 1 thing the OP failed to include is what was meant by "the shower stopped working".

No flow?, no hot water?, too much hot water?, or what?, you need to be more precise for anyone to be able to advise, and to be honest the plumber having seen and made his own diagnosis of the issues, has the upper hand.

But what I and keystone know is that diagnosing a faulty shower pump is pretty basic stuff, it would be difficult for a competent plumber to make that mistake accidentally, and I'm afraid the OP will have to make of what they will, :A:A:A

keystone

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

He/she will anyway;):D

How true! :rotfl:

Cheers.

enived

Thanks all for your posts - as you may have guessed I've no idea about plumbing, so thank you also for your patience, I really appreciate it!

When the shower is switched on, the pump intermittently tries to 'pump' so it makes its usual sound, just intermittently. When this happens, water dribbles out when the thermostat is on cold, and there's none when it's anywhere near warm.!This is also what it did when it 'broke' originally.

Both cold and hot water come in from above the bathroom. The cold water tank is in the loft above, and the hot water is in the airing cupboard next door. The hot water pipes then go up into the attic, across about 2 metres, and then down into the bathroom. The pump is above the hot water tank in the airing cupboard which the plumber told us was not ideal, but given the lack of space was the only option (and had in fairness been working fine in that position for a number of years for the previous owner).

He also said that some of the pipes in the attic were at an upward angle, something which he changed so they now slope downward. I'm not sure of anymore details on this as there isn't actually a floor in the attic so I haven't been able to investigate those pipes myself.

In terms of 'splitting the pipes': there used to be 2 silver pipes coming from the ceiling in the bathroom into the thermostat. He cut them both about halfway down and put what I can only describe as some sort of washer in (about an inch long), which was done to both pipes. It was this that he took off completely to release the trapped air.

When he was trying to work the problem out, water came gushing out of the pipes at the 'split' and the pump sounded fine. He seemed to think that the thermostat was causing the trapped air as its only when the water goes into it that there is a problem (albeit after 2 months in this instance).

When I say thermostat, I literally just mean the temperature control as aside from the pipes, that is the only visible part of the shower, and the only thing below the 'washers'.

No he didn't charge us for the second visit - and he said to install the thermostat he'd only charge us for the actual materials not labour (are thermostats £200?).

I hope that's answered all your questions - thanks again for taking time to give me advice!

enived

Just a thought, might be completely unrelated but...we had a new kitchen installed about 3 weeks before the shower problems started. The plumber on that job (from b&q) spent time doing stuff with pipes in the attic and plumbed in a washing machine and dishwasher - just coincidence?

keystone

So it sounds as though the pump is hunting a bit as it detects water flow but when the water stops flowing the flow switches cut it off. Does it (or the pipework) make any sort of jingling noises like theres beads in it being shaken about?

How is the hot water supply pipe for the pump connected to the cylinder? Is it a separate pipe through a flange on the side or is it a separate drawoff (from the taps) via a flange on the top or is it piped into the vent?

Same the cold storage source. Is it a completely separate pipe at the tank from the other taps/loo/cylinder feed that it supplies?

His "washer" is next to useless to remove any air. That has to be done at the highest point. Can we see a pic of thie "washer" please?

A replacement thermostatic cartridge (assuming thats what he means will be iro £100 - £ 120 at retail.unless its gold plated. If its a Bristan (for example) shower then the cartridges would be guaranteed for ten years so (in that case) it actually wouldn't cost a penny.

Anything is possible with B&Q. So the kitchen guys faffed about with the pipework in the roof. The the shower problems started. Then the shower guy went up there and "corrected" something. Now I'm even more suspicious that you have been at the mercy of some, ummmm, less than competant gerfingerpokery.

Would love to see some pics (suitably annotated to say what is what) of the pipework up there tbh.

Cheers

keystone

As you have a low post count the forum software won't let you post links.

Just take your picture(s), upload them to photobucket or imageshack or similar (please don't try and upload 2048 x 2048 resolution though - edit them first to a sensible size) and then when said site gioves you a "forum code" just put it in a post here as text but taking off the http bit. One of us can then put it back in and we can all see the image.

Cheers

cyclonebri1

Yep, it certainly seems to be "cavitating", ie has poor water supply so is pumping a mixture of air and water.

The "washers" just sound like vents on the highest point of each feed.

I'd say there must, (no could), be some sort of restriction prior to the shower pump,

That could have been the cause of the pump failure (if had actually failed, they don't last long running like that.

enived

There isn't any noise that I can hear other than that from the actual pump. I'm back home tomorrow so will have a closer look and answer the other questions and get photos then.

In the meantime I'm thinking about getting (a different!) plumber out as we have family staying next week so need to get it sorted. I don't suppose anyone can recommend somebody in south west London?!

Thanks again for your comments!