HMRC tax credit overpayment demand

thelaststraw

princessdon wrote: »

If they had underpaid you - would you have noticed from the award?

Probably not because I dont know what the entitlemet should be. The latest award says we are not entitled to anything, which we accepted. We now have a letter saying this desicion maybe a mistake and we should re-apply.

thelaststraw

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I agree that this is worth disputing.

Do you live near a large CAB?

Our local CAB deals with tax credits overpayments and will assist people who wish to dispute the overpayment.

However, usually, the Benefits and Welfare specialist only can help people who meet the criteria as regards their household income/savings.

Our CAB is fortunate to have a specialist who will also help people who are not financially eligible.

If you would like some help with this then it is worth telephoning or visiting CAB to see if they have anyone who could assist you.

yes, i am getting as much info together so that I can seek advise from CAB

shedboy94

princessdon wrote: »

If they had underpaid you - would you have noticed from the award?

This never fails to amaze me.......the vast majority of claimants know what is going into their bank and will phone when the payment is a bit less than normal, however when it is the other way around they don't seem so quick to call when they receive more money than expected.......I wonder why that might be??......

pmlindyloo

shedboy94 wrote: »

This never fails to amaze me.......the vast majority of claimants know what is going into their bank and will phone when the payment is a bit less than normal, however when it is the other way around they don't seem so quick to call when they receive more money than expected.......I wonder why that might be??......

I think this is rather unfair.

People do query their payments if they are less than they usually receive but this is usually because they do not know why they are receiving less.

Tax credits are massively complicated so much so that mistakes are often made by the department themselves.

There is a presumption that people understand what is on their award letter and in most straightforward cases this is reasonable.

However, when there is a change of circumstances it is often very difficult to check the figures or indeed understand what amounts have been given.

I find it rather hypocritical that the department can make a mistake and say 'you should have checked the figures' and yet fail to recognise that other people who have little knowledge of the system can make mistakes too.

If the client has informed the department of a change of circumstances then it should be expected that mistakes made by the department are 'picked up' quickly, instead of allowing the 'mistake' to continue for years.

It is a totally different scenario when a client does not inform about a change of circumstances. Then when an overpayment arises the client has little to complain about.

shedboy94

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I think this is rather unfair.

People do query their payments if they are less than they usually receive but this is usually because they do not know why they are receiving less. Agreed - so why don't they call when they receive more than they are expecting?

Tax credits are massively complicated so much so that mistakes are often made by the department themselves. I also agree that individual mistakes are made - it is called human error, however that is why award notices are sent out - it is the claimants responsibility to read the award notice and tell TC's if anything is wrong - if they don't understand it, they should phone and check it.

There is a presumption that people understand what is on their award letter and in most straightforward cases this is reasonable. Award notices are really not that compliacated - there really can be no excuse if the award notice says your income is £0, or it says you work X amount of hours, or it says you claim for X amount of children and you don't call to say that the info is wrong.

However, when there is a change of circumstances it is often very difficult to check the figures or indeed understand what amounts have been given. The only figures that really need to be checked are the income figures. The back page tells the payments - "on xxdate you will receive a payment of xx followed by weekly payments of xx until xxdate - it's not complicated

I find it rather hypocritical that the department can make a mistake and say 'you should have checked the figures' and yet fail to recognise that other people who have little knowledge of the system can make mistakes too. Why is it hypocritical to ask someone to check something that is sent to them - it is partly the reason that awards are issued.

If the client has informed the department of a change of circumstances then it should be expected that mistakes made by the department are 'picked up' quickly, instead of allowing the 'mistake' to continue for years. Again, mistakes are usually picked up when someone queries a change in their payments (or in some cases no change to their payments when they should reasonably expect there to be one), a mistake on their award, or from random checks. Unfortunately it is impossible to check millions of claims (I wish all claims were fully investigated, but there isn't the resources). The main problem is when it comes to renewals - we ask if the person has read the renewal, understood it and has any changes to report - it is a legal declaration, so if they say the info is correct and it isn't then there isn't really a leg left to stand on.

It is a totally different scenario when a client does not inform about a change of circumstances. Then when an overpayment arises the client has little to complain about.

I agree totally with the last statement, unfortunately HMRC are a soft touch, whereas DWP will prosecute at the drop of a hat for fraud.
If someone claims JSA/IS whilst working there is a good chance they will be prosecuted, however if someone claims WTC while not actually working they aren't punished. I fail to see the difference.

thelaststraw

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I think this is rather unfair.

People do query their payments if they are less than they usually receive but this is usually because they do not know why they are receiving less.

Tax credits are massively complicated so much so that mistakes are often made by the department themselves.

There is a presumption that people understand what is on their award letter and in most straightforward cases this is reasonable.

However, when there is a change of circumstances it is often very difficult to check the figures or indeed understand what amounts have been given.

I find it rather hypocritical that the department can make a mistake and say 'you should have checked the figures' and yet fail to recognise that other people who have little knowledge of the system can make mistakes too.

If the client has informed the department of a change of circumstances then it should be expected that mistakes made by the department are 'picked up' quickly, instead of allowing the 'mistake' to continue for years.

It is a totally different scenario when a client does not inform about a change of circumstances. Then when an overpayment arises the client has little to complain about.

Thanks for that. I genuinly would not know if I was underpaid or overpaid. It is all so complicated and as i said earlier, for six months now they have said we are not entitled to any tax credits, but last week we received a letter saying they think they have made a mistake and that we should now apply again. We are not going to do this as we dont want to end up owing even more money to them if at some point in the future they decide that they hadnt made a mistake and they had overpaid us again

Linclass_2

shedboy94 wrote: »

This never fails to amaze me.......the vast majority of claimants know what is going into their bank and will phone when the payment is a bit less than normal, however when it is the other way around they don't seem so quick to call when they receive more money than expected.......I wonder why that might be??......

I have queried every overpayment I have received promptly [on day of receipt] asked and re-ask are they sure this is correct and we put the money to one side until we were certain it is Ok to spend it too. I take nothing for granted as far as Tax credits are concerned, so glad we are payments are minuscule now less chance to run up huge debts, stress and worry with them.

My sister was once overpaid [can't remember the exact circumstances] but it was a lot and she begged and begged them to stop sending payments out, told she had to wait for this to happen, she ended up with over £1000 extra until it was sorted.

:TI am glad the tax codes for the low paid are being raised as its taking us out of this erroneous and fraught system of payments.:T

Horseunderwater

We had an overpayment in I think 2003 of £3500 and I phoned them and asked if they were sure it was right. Yes it is I was told. I said it cannot be as we only qualify for the £545 basic element I told him. Was told they had not made an error and if I so wished to spend it. We did. Fatal error. 3 weeks later the award letter arrived and what did I spot? My earnings had not gone onto the system somehow? Now I remember filling out the on line application with both mine and his income included and it stating that it had received the information and that it would get processed. My question is how did those details "disappear" off the system - surely somebody had to delete them. We appealed and failed to win as funnily enough they could not find that telephone conversation where I had been told to spend spend spend and that no error had occured. So in effect our £545 for the next several years went straight back to them to recover the overpayment. We got used to not having it at all. Have just cleared the last £7.39 due. We are now due full CTC due to a huge change in circumstances - hubby lost job and I am on ESA in support group due to long term illness - this is being converted to income related as I write this. According to the benefits check tool on here, it should be full CTC if I am on ESA income related, but for some reason they are doing it on estimated income, so I am now waiting till I get my P45 for the contributions ESA, so that I can ring them up and get it sorted.
Tax credits themselves are not that hard to understand, but how the tapering and the income levels that apply come into play are where it gets complicated. If only somebody could keep it simple when they invent these helping measures, then people would not get into these situations in the first place. I have heard so many people over the years say they wished they'd never claimed. And TBH I can see their point. As to the OP notifying them of a change to circumstances during 2003/4 and them not applying it right off - that is their error, but the OP should have noticed that they were still being paid too much. I am certain they will not win this one. But as to paying it back, it can be taken out via your tax code at a minimal rate each week/month as they have to allow you a reasonable amount to live on and pay your bills with. I think one of the letters states that a good chunk was repaid the following year. The first thing to do is start with the original Overpayment of £5K+ take off the amount paid back and then the next award etc etc work in years and columns and put it all onto one piece of paper. Then look at what your income actually was for those years and write that by the side of each award year. Find out what the Tax credit awards were for each year - they are available on line if you google - it will include the thresholds and the tapering %age. You should then be able to see juts by looking at your income figures, how much you should have been getting and work it all out. That way you can then see how the overpayments figured into it all and you can then fight them from a better position. Never bury your head in the sand.

Nttrees

Hello Problems with the payment system
I have claimed working tax credit as a individual since 07 approx £52 a wk I keep all my bookkeeping paper works in order I got married in 10-12-10 my wife was on incapacity benefit which they revoked in 10-08-12 so she went on to income based job seekers I did not inform them until 17-10-12 2 years whoops of my change in family cirminstances instance when I wished to claim jointly for us & my disabled son which was not backdated to when my son came to live with me in march 012 typical or backdated for my wife
We have recently received a letter demanding £1488-96 to be paid back by 15-09-13 I phoned them for a expectation which they seemed vague
There reasons I did not notify them of my change in cirmstances I could understand if I was claiming for someone else but I was claiming as a individual so they say I wasn't entitled to it even though my business was showing a loss so I was entitled to £52 a wk all paper works in order
Yet if I want to back claim for my wife I can not so is this right seems wrong to me is this right or do they make up the rules as they go along
Who can help me please
regards
Nic

pmlindyloo

Nttrees wrote: »

Hello Problems with the payment system
I have claimed working tax credit as a individual since 07 approx £52 a wk I keep all my bookkeeping paper works in order I got married in 10-12-10 my wife was on incapacity benefit which they revoked in 10-08-12 so she went on to income based job seekers I did not inform them until 17-10-12 2 years whoops of my change in family cirminstances instance when I wished to claim jointly for us & my disabled son which was not backdated to when my son came to live with me in march 012 typical or backdated for my wife
We have recently received a letter demanding £1488-96 to be paid back by 15-09-13 I phoned them for a expectation which they seemed vague
There reasons I did not notify them of my change in cirmstances I could understand if I was claiming for someone else but I was claiming as a individual so they say I wasn't entitled to it even though my business was showing a loss so I was entitled to £52 a wk all paper works in order
Yet if I want to back claim for my wife I can not so is this right seems wrong to me is this right or do they make up the rules as they go along
Who can help me please
regards
Nic

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