ESA problems and doctor's confusion.

Charlie_the_Unicorn.

Hello,

I had my appeal to the health assessment rejected which I guess is par for the course for those with mental health issues. They even went as far to ignore my specific reasons for why they were wrong, making my appeal letter redundant.

But when receiving back the full correspondence regarding this decision they did not include my letter asking them to contact my doctor to request any information they may require.
This is something my doctor advised I should ask them to do. He confirmed to me they had not contacted him. In the initial conversation he was adamant that he is always contacted in this manner and is correct protocol.

Secondly, I said I wanted to take this to the tribunal stage and despite my trying he is convinced at this point he should only give out letters as evidence when requested for by the tribunal or by a solicitor, and that just giving out letter for me is pointless and a bureaucratic waste of time.
He is a very well regarded GP but this goes entirely against all the information I have read. (I've just returned from the surgery to find the tribunal letter on my door step which includes the line 'It is your responsibility to obtain evidence, including any evidence from your own doctor'.)

I haven't asked my psychologist yet to provide a letter but I'm sure he will. But I'm concerned that without my GP's information AND cooperation my tribunal appearance will fail.

Any help is massively appreciated.

N.

epitome

No advice other than write a letter to the BC to ask why they had not contacted your doctor as you had requested them to do so in the letter (copy enclosed)....When they reply they either say sorry we made a mistake or Sorry, we don't do that it is your responsibility to get evidence from your doctor....Then show that letter to your doctor.

I believe the protocol on this changed a while ago from the BC always contacting the Doctor for their opinion.......... to....... the BC no longer contacting the Doctor at all.

Just because you write the BC a letter does not mean they will respond, send it recorded delivery (& track it) and phone up 8 days later to ask them to call you back to confirm they have received it, and insist on a written reply.

*Your appeal was not exactly rejected, it just has not passed the reconsideration stage (not many do) so I would not worry about that, it is going to tribunal now and you can submit doctors letters to the tribunal service as far as I know. Your tribunal could take about 6 months now.

Bamber19

Charlie_the_Unicorn. wrote: »

Hello,

I had my appeal to the health assessment rejected which I guess is par for the course for those with mental health issues. They even went as far to ignore my specific reasons for why they were wrong, making my appeal letter redundant.

But when receiving back the full correspondence regarding this decision they did not include my letter asking them to contact my doctor to request any information they may require.
This is something my doctor advised I should ask them to do. He confirmed to me they had not contacted him. In the initial conversation he was adamant that he is always contacted in this manner and is correct protocol.

Secondly, I said I wanted to take this to the tribunal stage and despite my trying he is convinced at this point he should only give out letters as evidence when requested for by the tribunal or by a solicitor, and that just giving out letter for me is pointless and a bureaucratic waste of time.
He is a very well regarded GP but this goes entirely against all the information I have read. (I've just returned from the surgery to find the tribunal letter on my door step which includes the line 'It is your responsibility to obtain evidence, including any evidence from your own doctor'.)

I haven't asked my psychologist yet to provide a letter but I'm sure he will. But I'm concerned that without my GP's information AND cooperation my tribunal appearance will fail.

Any help is massively appreciated.

N.

Some GP's are like this and wont give letters to their patients. He is wrong though, a letter from him to you, then passed onto the tribunal could be very helpful (provided it actually backs up eligibility for ESA) you should perhaps look in to getting a representative for your tribunal, Welfare rights or CAB and depending on their funding they may request and pay for further medical evidence.

huskybabe

I was told that for an ESA appeal they do not contact your Gp for any information or medical reports. They say that their word is deemed final and it is up to yourselves to disprove this. You have to provide all information either from your Gp or specialist. Your GP is probably unaware of this. I got an helpful member of the DWP to contact my medical centre before they would believe me. Have a word with your GP's receptonist or the practise manager of the medical centre. They can assist you and are usually very helpful. Also you can view your medical records, your medical centre can help you with this also. Good luck, it can be a long slow process, but dont give up. Contact your local CAB or welfare rights group if you have any problems. They are there to help.

Muttleythefrog

I think your GP may be wrong here... I don't think protocol dictates the DWP have to contact your GP for medical opinion upon request or otherwise (I seem to recall I had similar issue with my GP when I applied for DLA... he insisted his opinion would be sought at reconsideration stage... it duly wasn't and he denied even speaking to me on the matter at later date). There is a form ESA113 which is for GPs to give details and that is sometimes sent out by ATOS HC when they feel they may be able to avoid a face to face medical in their duty to give their opinion on you in relation to WCA.

So to get context.. it seems you failed the WCA and were found fit for work. You appealed this decision and have had the DWP's automatic reconsideration now report back the same decision. The paperwork should now be sent by DWP to tribunals service who should contact you in due course. The tribunal.. to confirm.. will almost certainly not seek opinion from your GP.. they won't seek other evidence (except orally at the tribunal itself from those attending) as standard although they can. Grr I should read on.. you've received contact from tribunals service so at least you know things are happening procedurally as they should.

My strong advice is get supporting evidence if you can.. but focus on the descriptors.... the problem you may face is that the HCPs like your GP may not be very clued up on the descriptors and it would be disastrous if you fought for their efforts only to get a document that was of no use... too generic or totally lacking in facts or opinion in relation to what is tested in the WCA. Focus on those descriptors... go through them.. identify which apply to you... then try to get some contact with one of your HCPs who could write something to support your view that these apply to you.. or that some do. It's important that you make sure that your evidence is timely.. timely in the sense that the tribunal will consider it as applying around the time of the decision you're appealing against... so if you're getting evidence it might be helpful to get the HCP to confirm their opinion relates to how your were at around decision date. Any evidence you get now should be sent to tribunals service rather than DWP...and you can even take new evidence on the day.. but obviously this issue of 'timely' evidence is important.

Don't underestimate how powerful your own testimony could be at tribunal... opt for an oral hearing so you can attend.. this statistically dramatically improves your chances for obvious reason... you can give primary evidence and be questioned directly by those making the decision. Recently on MSE as example... someone was worried that they had no supporting evidence for their appeal and if I recall they were found to meet no descriptors at all by DWP (and ATOS)... but they succeeded at appeal.

grummps

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

I think your GP may be wrong here... I don't think protocol dictates the DWP have to contact your GP for medical opinion upon request or otherwise (I seem to recall I had similar issue with my GP when I applied for DLA... he insisted his opinion would be sought at reconsideration stage... it duly wasn't and he denied even speaking to me on the matter at later date). There is a form ESA113 which is for GPs to give details and that is sometimes sent out by ATOS HC when they feel they may be able to avoid a face to face medical in their duty to give their opinion on you in relation to WCA.

So to get context.. it seems you failed the WCA and were found fit for work. You appealed this decision and have had the DWP's automatic reconsideration now report back the same decision. The paperwork should now be sent by DWP to tribunals service who should contact you in due course. The tribunal.. to confirm.. will almost certainly not seek opinion from your GP.. they won't seek other evidence (except orally at the tribunal itself from those attending) as standard although they can. Grr I should read on.. you've received contact from tribunals service so at least you know things are happening procedurally as they should.

My strong advice is get supporting evidence if you can.. but focus on the descriptors.... the problem you may face is that the HCPs like your GP may not be very clued up on the descriptors and it would be disastrous if you fought for their efforts only to get a document that was of no use... too generic or totally lacking in facts or opinion in relation to what is tested in the WCA. Focus on those descriptors... go through them.. identify which apply to you... then try to get some contact with one of your HCPs who could write something to support your view that these apply to you.. or that some do. It's important that you make sure that your evidence is timely.. timely in the sense that the tribunal will consider it as applying around the time of the decision you're appealing against... so if you're getting evidence it might be helpful to get the HCP to confirm their opinion relates to how your were at around decision date. Any evidence you get now should be sent to tribunals service rather than DWP...and you can even take new evidence on the day.. but obviously this issue of 'timely' evidence is important.

Don't underestimate how powerful your own testimony could be at tribunal... opt for an oral hearing so you can attend.. this statistically dramatically improves your chances for obvious reason... you can give primary evidence and be questioned directly by those making the decision. Recently on MSE as example... someone was worried that they had no supporting evidence for their appeal and if I recall they were found to meet no descriptors at all by DWP (and ATOS)... but they succeeded at appeal.

At a Tribunal hearing I went to it was made clear that they did not believe a word I had said! They didn't even give me the chance to make a statement - I had to ask if I could, it was cut short.

Bamber19

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Any evidence you get now should be sent to tribunals service rather than DWP...and you can even take new evidence on the day.. but obviously this issue of 'timely' evidence is important.

You can take it on the day, yes but if you get it beforehand then send it in in advance. (Generally) It really annoys tribunal members when they have someone turn up on the day with a letter written specifically for the tribunal, about the relevant period and dated 2 months ago, they wonder why the appellant ahs sat on the letter for 2 months. Worse when it's a rep that does this.

Charlie_the_Unicorn.

Thank you guys for all the advice. I have sent a letter back to the decision maker, and will seek a further letter of support from my shrink and send both letters to the tribunal folk asap. As for doctor's letter I'll have to see how things play out.

My problem with the assessment... if you care to know... is that they only ask questions about a typical day now. But my mental health issue is caused directly by work so a typical day now is different to one when employed.
This is something that I stated but wasn't noted in the assessment notes, and ignored in my letter of appeal.

When my psychologist backs this up, I hope I should be fine at the tribunal, but so far people just want to look the other way.

Muttleythefrog

Charlie_the_Unicorn. wrote: »

Thank you guys for all the advice. I have sent a letter back to the decision maker, and will seek a further letter of support from my shrink and send both letters to the tribunal folk asap. As for doctor's letter I'll have to see how things play out.

My problem with the assessment... if you care to know... is that they only ask questions about a typical day now. But my mental health issue is caused directly by work so a typical day now is different to one when employed.
This is something that I stated but wasn't noted in the assessment notes, and ignored in my letter of appeal.

When my psychologist backs this up, I hope I should be fine at the tribunal, but so far people just want to look the other way.

I understand the problem... what people fail to understand is that MH problems may only in effect exist given circumstance. This poses a problem... in fact IME it poses a problem with MH professionals too who seem to just not get it despite its simplicity. People with MH problems will often adapt their circumstance to avoid the effects of their MH problems... so someone with social anxiety issues avoids social situations... so if asked how you cope with social situations on a daily basis then you neither do it well or badly... it can appear to not be an issue in your day to day life... but it isn't an issue because you actively evade it... if you have to work then you typically will lose a great deal of that avoidance strategy and it becomes a problem.

With regular MH pros I tend to give the informative answers... not necessarily directly answering of the question asked... because questions asked are often not particularly revealing or meaningful. Problem with a face to face ATOS medical for the WCA is this assessment is driven by a piece of software and a probable lacklustre HCP and goodness knows what strategy is best to get appropriate system responses. There's the concept of fluctuating conditions... but I'm not sure that's what we're talking about.

Muttleythefrog

grummps wrote: »

At a Tribunal hearing I went to it was made clear that they did not believe a word I had said! They didn't even give me the chance to make a statement - I had to ask if I could, it was cut short.

The tribunal panel reached the same conclusion as me then Andy. You are completely unbelievable.