Mum has died, no will - advice please?

Werdnal

My mum passed away yesterday after a long illness. Been down with Dad today to visit the hospital and collect the death cert, and see the undertaker to get things rolling. I rang the Registry Office to book to register the death and cannot do this until Wednesday afternoon, so everything now on hold until we can get copies of the certs for everyone.

I always though M&D had made wills - for over 30 years mum worked in elder care positions and I assumed they had practiced what they preached and made their wishes formal. However, Dad dropped the bombshell this morning that they hadn't done one!

I have looked online and seen various conflicting advice. Some sites say everything automatically reverts to the surviving spouse, whilst others say it has to go through probate and letters of administration, whatever they are!

M&D do not own a property (always rented), and their savings amount to a couple of ISA's (their funeral money mum always said), and 2 bank accounts. All these are in joint names as far as I know. Dad is digging out all the paperwork this afternoon. Can anyone please advise me where we go from here? I am visiting the registry office on Wednesday with dad to get copies of the certs etc, then go to the bank to change the accounts and ISAs into his name alone. Are we likely to have problems with this? Do we really need to apply for probate etc? This is all new to me and dad is distressed enough without coming up against a brick wall if we are doing something wrong.

Any advice appreciated, thanks!

troubleinparadise

Dear Werdnal,

I'm sorry to hear your sad news about your mum - always a sad time, whatever the circumstances.

Sadly too as you are finding, the official processes intrude on your bereavement, but have to be attended to.

Here is a link to the Direct Gov website which will give you an overview on how to tackle the situation where there is no will. I hope it will start pointing you in the right direction and give you some useful information.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Death/Preparation/DG_10029802

Best wishes

ellay864

Sorry to hear of your loss.
I was just going to post that link! Basically for estate up to value of £250K it all goes to your dad; if more than that, the first £250K goes to him and the rest is shared equally between any children.
Hopefully you shouldn't have too many problems if your family situation is quite straightforward

Werdnal

Thanks for the replies and condolences. Although sad its also a relief as mum has been every ill for last couple of weeks, so out of her pain and suffering no more!

I doubt mum's estate amounts for £25K, never mind £250K, and there is no one other than my brother and I to challenge anything, so we won't be putting any barriers in the way. I will read the helpful link.

Thanks again,

TonyMMM

Joint bank accounts automatically go to the other account holder , outside of the probate process, so they should be very straightforward and can be changed over on production of the death ertificate.

ISA's cannot be held jointly so whether you need probate or not depends on the amounts involved. For small amounts (often under about £5k) they may release the funds on production of the certificate alone, getting you to sign an indemnity form, but banks do differ about the rules they use - so you will need to ask them for their policy.

If necessary, the bank will also arrange for funeral expenses to be paid from an account (whether probate is needed or not), you just take the undertaker's bill into them.

BUT - take your time ...the money isn't going anywhere, and your dad and the grieving process should take priority for now.

Werdnal

Thanks Tony, I understand your thoughts about the grieving process, but Dad actually wants to get it all over and sorted. Mum used to handle all their financial affairs and run the home and he is afraid he won't be able to manage all the paperwork required to sort these things out, so has asked me to help him get it done sooner rather than later. Gives him something to do aswell, as the last 12 weeks he has spent most of his time at her hospital bedside, so is now a little lost without a purpose!

savingmummy

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Tulip

Sorry to hear of your loss

RAS

Werdnal

Wish the news was different.

Joint accounts normally become the possession of the sole survivor, so they are not included in the estate (exceptions if they are very large).

I think any ISA ceases to be protected from tax liability on death. They may pay them over your dad on receipt of the death certificate.It very much depends on their rules; some set the limit at £5K but there was a case on here recently where the wrong person removed the best part of £20K from an account because he thought he was the benefiary. Dad may well have to go in with proof of identity.

if any of the accounts are larger, try to get the funeral billed directly to that account,rather than to dad.

On a practical note - try and keep both accounts open and the DDs running to reduce the stress on dad.

You need to ask the Council to re-assess any CT liability and record a single person occupancy if appropriate. Dad also needs to inform any pensions and benefits provider ASAP. Most of them pay part in arrears and part in advance so there may well be a weeks overpayment to be refunded. The pensions standard letter sounds like they are investigating fraud but they are not.

Do a check with the list assests register and put an ad in the London gazette re debts, as this protects him long run. There is always the risk that it brings up sharks hoping to get pay-outs on statute barred debts but DFW can help you if you encounter debts about which you knew nothing.

getmore4less

OK there is time,

Wanting to get things closed off quickly is part of the process especialy where there has been illness but it can take time and the delays can be anoying when there is liitle to do inbetween..

If you can be around and are orginized it might be best if you take over, go through the process with him but so the paperwork and organization

Some banks can be quite slow to do things so you do need a bit of patience.

Start collecting the information together for all her accounts and assets, then once you have the certificate you can start the notification process and see if any want a grant(letters of administration as there is no will). many will use probabe it tends to get used interchangably

If there is the need for the grant then that requires some form filling but in most cases is relatively easy. But to DIY requires a trip to the probate office which for some is not convenient.

PA1 and IHT205 are the key forms to look for should it come to that.
If there is a probate office near they usualy have a bundle ready allthough they are all on-line.

There is quite a lot of info on-line about the process and the library will have some books

I_wanna_live_for_free

Sorry to hear of your loss.