Buying house - suspect subsidence

mark55man

don't know anything about subsidence, just commenting that you seem to be taking the vendor's "no more reductions" a bit too seriously.

you made an offer fine.
It was accepted, fine.
You think there is an issue - so you pay to get it checked out - fine.
If the survey finds nothing - you are happy but a bit out of pocket - fine
If it finds something - you have to expect to renegotiate or have them fix it or walk away.

reggie

kingstreet wrote: »

It may be cheaper to invest in a structural engineer's report instead. It wouldn't be the first time a client had a full structural survey by an FRICS who then recommended a structural engineer's report.

http://www.findanengineer.com/

Choose the "Surveying: Domestic Property" dropdown and add the postcode of the preoperty.

It may be worth having a chat to the structural engineer to establish if your concerns can be best be met by an engineer or a surveyor.

Thanks. Will ring on Monday and have a chat with one I have found close to me.

GDB2222

reggie wrote: »

Think he was being genuine and the cracks and gap seem to back up what he is saying. Will show to EA this week and get her to talk to vendors on reaction if subsidence found. If open, then full survey; if they say no price reduction regardless then we either go for survey hoping problem not so bad, or walk away - would hate to do latter as has taken ages to find house.
Thanks for all replies

The real question you asked is this:
There's probably subsidence, but the vendors have said they will not drop their price even if there is, so should you shell out a lot of money on a survey?

If there are no other issues with the house, you are looking at the cost of demolishing the existing conservatory, putting in new foundations and rebuilding. There seems to be no suggestion that the main house is subsiding, but even so that will be a lot of expense.

I would just walk away from the deal, with copious apologies and explanations, but making it clear that you are still interested. Maybe get a rough quote for the demolition and rebuilding. Leave it for a while and see if the vendors change their tune. There must be other houses that don't have this issue.

reggie

Unfortunately round our way, not too many decent family homes available. Our hand may be forced, as we cannot afford any huge expenses. We may get an engineer to check just the conservatory area out - might be a bit cheaper and more useful than a full survey. Will chat to EA about vendor's likely response - their problem will be, if subsidence is proved, how will they remarket it with this knowledge? Got a sad feeling, we may end up walking away.

leeelw

I am a ex estate agent and had a sale going through with genuine subsidence issue, which w/o giving you the inside details the outcome satisfied the owners lender and the insurer, but upon selling because the cracking came up in a normal home buyers survey, the further investigations meant the buyer would have to pay a very high premium insurance, the same insurer who insured it for its life refused to insure to the new owners. despite the fact the house was standing for 30 years with no recorded worsening of the cracking.

In this instance I would take away any emotional attachment, you may solve one question then further down the line once you decided to pay whatever, another question can come up relating to the same problem.

Deal with the facts, why was the conservatory replaced ? was it done by insurance (your solicitor will know this), have any other insurance claims been made on the home ?
How long have the vendors been there, did anything come up on their survey ?

you might be OK with a few minor problems but what impact will it have on you with 1) insurance 2) rectification 3) if you sold the house will it come up on a survey.

I would let the mortgage survey go ahead and ask the surveyor to pay attention to that area- when the report comes through it normally has a contact number for the surveyor......they normally will give you a view which sits on the fence slightly but the key question is...would they recommend further investigation.

forget the 10% reduction, more than likely the "marketting price" was roughly hiked up to around that amount anyway (without knowing the marketting history, you may of had a good deal).....the best way to get a true value of a property is to find a like for like SOLD comparison.

if the sellers are being rigid on the price, more than likely they are relying on the proceeds for their next step, which is quite normal but this is not your problem.

are there any trees nearby which could potentially be sapping the water from the ground ?

has your solicitor done conveyancing in that area ? if so, locally have they had any cases ? I live in milton keynes and we have known hotspots which are quite liable to the odd subsidence issues ?

Its a hard one to advise, no one wants to talk you out of a property that you have fallen in love with, but hey, any smidging of the "s" word, investigate and shake of the personal attachment.

hope this helps

amcluesent

What is the construction off the main house? If it's on a concrete 'pad', then it's not unusual for a conservatory on separate footings to move a bit with respect to the house, they weigh almost nothing after all!

Have a look around too. Is this area mostly clay ground and/or is there a tree nearby which could be taking up water?

I'd only worry of there were are signs of cracking going through a brick and gaps around windows\doors in the main house.

reggie

Wow! Thanks for the really great replies. The previous conservatory obviously had problems, (leaking, pulling away), I don't think this one is leaking, but the flashing? looks like might have moved plus there is a gap between the floor where it meets the house. If there was room for renegotiation, we would happily (in the future) pull it down and replace it with a solid structure. How would insurers view this, if the offending conservatory was no longer there, would it still be difficult to obtain insurance? Would a structural engineer's report help after all work was done? We are trying to get as many answers as we can before we spend too much. I think we will hold off on the searches and get the survey done first, then take it from there. Regarding the ground, it is pretty solid - essentially rock!

leeelw

regarding the issue about the insurance, they will deal with the facts and can only act on what they are told.

have there been any claims previously etc.

i think at this stage you are right to pause the searches, get the mortgage survey done asap - be sure what type of survey and what aspects is the survey going to cover.

normally a mortgage survey will cover
value
structure
mechanics - gas & electric looking in good order and serviced regular.

one step at a time, see what the surveyor recommends / reports, at least if you were to re-negotiate you would have a expert opinion to back you up.

if the report comes back clear this would also be ok for the insurers, technically they need not to know if there are no previous claims and a surveyor has inspected the property and is satisfied

keep us posted, email me if you wish

[EMAIL="leedonelwood@sky.com"]leedonelwood@sky.com[/EMAIL]

take care

reggie

Thanks, will pursue those avenues. Will ring a surveyor and structural engineer tomorrow and see what is recommended. Will then chat to EA re next step - either chatting to vendors first or structural survey first.
Also will need to find out insurance implications if is worst case but we pull conservatory down, therefore getting rid of problem.

leeelw

I would be careful at this stage to contact insurers until you are clear on the outcomes first, any hint of the "s" word and you will have problems, get this looked into first, afterall, if you are not happy with the outcome, would you really go that far ?

its great you are willing to take the conservatory away, but a insurer will not deal with a "what if" - they may request it being done before you move in ? who knows but I feel this is too far ahead at this stage

are you mortgage free on this purchase?

if you are getting a mortgage you can request a upgraded survey, speak to your lender or broker

a structual engineer will be again, at a later date if no one is satisfied with the cause and the possibility of the problem getting worse - this may also scare your vendors into putting the house back on the market, if they think you are having doubts.

the key is one step at a time

get the survey organised either via lender or independently, speak to the surveyor regarding your concern.

pay your solicitor fees but ask them to pause searches - and ask them if they have dealt with any cases in this region for this problem

try to establish through the EA, who will speak tactfully to the vendor - why was the last conservatory replaced (no one has buried their wives etc) and from the sellers questionaire (which you will recieve via your solicitors) has their been any insurance claims on the property.

once you have gathered the facts and information your next step would be to decide, how far do you take this ?