Not claimed Child Benefit = Not allowed I/S

mikey_bach

you are right Epitome just read the post again.
The claim from April may fail the appeal I read it as CHB was applied from then.
OP saying claim was made three weeks to chb, there are now grounds to I.S definately,
would apply again is entitled and ask for backdating to date of chb claim, worth a try

epitome

I agree, a new claim for IS now, and back date to the date chb applied for.

neverdespairgirl

4 children - are they also his children? Or his steps?

What form of leave to remain has she been granted by the UKBA?

richardb22

Thanks for all your answers.

To clarify she was granted limited leave to remain with recourse to public funds and to be treated as habitually resident by UKBA under a scheme to safeguard victims of domestic violence. Two of the children are UK nationals and two foreign nationals and were given similar papers by UKBA. That was in April.

I did appeal against the refusals and that is in the pipeline. Who would have guessed that she had to make an application for child benefit in her name first?

Anyway we made the application for child benefit so the husbands claim will close and the money she recieves for that ( as it was going into her account ) will stop while her child benefit gets processed. Her application is now with the "foreign section" and that will take about 26 weeks to process.

I wondered if I could speed the process up by booking her a national insurance number interview ( which takes a few days ) but that is refused as the "foreign section" will issue one.

The bottom line is that this lady with four kids entitled to have recourse to public funds is going to be reliant on Social Services for some time it seems. Can she get a job? Yes she has permission to work but employers are reluctant without a NI number which is maybe 26 weeks away.

What a mess.

Richard

missapril75

richardb22 wrote: »

Who would have guessed that she had to make an application for child benefit in her name first?

No need to guess. It's on the claim form. It refers to children the applicant gets child benefit for. Then it asks applicant parents to list the children for whom they get child benefit. There's an additional option to say it's been applied for. Looks like another case of people not paying attention to the literature supplied to them; like when people say "I didn't know I had to report that" when it's been on documents issued to them that they didn't bother to read even though they have signed to confirm they did.

Having said that, the system falls down very badly when child benefit is in one parent's name and the other now has the kids just as it does when a couple separates and the one who was being claimed for experiences difficulty through the other partner not changing their claim promptly.

richardb22

Point taken MissApril only nowadays you make the application by phone and answer the questions put to you which is what this lady did. I appreciate that the questioner is not an adviser but if its that obvious there should be some "trigger" whereby the DWP tell an applicant that. The refusal only referred to lack of entitlement and did not give a reason. It was only after the MP got in touch that the lady was told it was a lack of a CB application that was the problem.

I think you are right the system needs tweeking in these circumstances.

Richard

missapril75

richardb22 wrote: »

Point taken MissApril only nowadays you make the application by phone and answer the questions put to you which is what this lady did. I appreciate that the questioner is not an adviser but if its that obvious there should be some "trigger" whereby the DWP tell an applicant that.

Agreed. But that's a problem with the call centre system trying to do things on the cheap.

I would be interested to know just what is issued to people as a result of telephone claims. Those still working in DWP...do people get issued with the sort of information routinely found in the old claim packs? Are the little leaflets still issued with decision notices that detail all those things people are supposed to report?

epitome

I don't agree missApril, even if she made the claim on a paper claim form, just because the questions are there does not mean or suggest that the lack of a CB claim will result in a disallowance. The same questions are asked on a JSA claim and CB makes no difference to JSA.

But as OPs friend made the claim on the telephone they just answered the questions given to them, they had no clue that no CB would be a disallowance. This is where the telephone agents need to break from the script and give customers a warning that they may not get IS and are they sure they would not rather claim JSA instead until CB is in payment....The telephone agents are not allowed to do this, but IMHO it is morally wrong not to do so and they should do it.

Even if the claimant had asked for an eligibility check on the phone they would still have been told "you may be eligible for IS or JSA" even though everyone (except the customer) knows there isn't a cat's chance in hell that they will get Income Support.

Claimants get nothing except a statement of their answers, nothing to to tell them qualifying criteria which they can read at their leisure while waiting for the claim to be processed.

I also agree with the OP that the letters of refusal are shocking, they just say "you are not entitled" they never say WHY you are not entitled, for that, you have to go fishing.

missapril75

epitome wrote: »

I don't agree missApril, even if she made the claim on a paper claim form, just because the questions are there does not mean or suggest that the lack of a CB claim will result in a disallowance. The same questions are asked on a JSA claim and CB makes no difference to JSA.

This was an I/S claim for a lone parent and the form includes the benefits definition of being a lone parent ie having children you get CB for. It's not a question - that comes after. The implication is you either actually get CB or have applied for it - or you aren't a lone parent according to that definition.

Would that not indicate a CB application then needs to be made? Alternatively one queries one's status as a lone parent and phones to ask what is needed.

But as OPs friend made the claim on the telephone they just answered the questions given to them, they had no clue that no CB would be a disallowance.

That's why I asked current DWP workers about what is issued following the phone claim, to see if there is some sort of equivalent. For example, does the summary make any reference to the CB position?

Since the claim form either wants CB in payment or has been claimed - there is no option for it hasn't been claimed - what is the claim taker recording when they ask questions and discover no CB claim made and not in payment. I imagine something would be triggered at this point.

Perhaps this something is referred to in the documents sent out following the call.

I'm not trying to be argumentative...I left DWP just before telephone claims were being introduced. But I know how myths get converted to facts.

On another thread the subject of lack of info issued by DWP cropped up. Based on my experience of 30+ years working there, I commented that contrary to what was being said there would actually have been several examples of letters as opposed to the none claimed.

Current DWP workers confirmed this to still be the case. Hence I wonder if there is some equivalent for telephone claims.

epitome

missapril75 wrote: »

This was an I/S claim for a lone parent and the form includes the benefits definition of being a lone parent ie having children you get CB for. It's not a question - that comes after. The implication is you either actually get CB or have applied for it - or you aren't a lone parent according to that definition.

Would that not indicate a CB application then needs to be made? Alternatively one queries one's status as a lone parent and phones to ask what is needed.

You are assuming that definition of a LP is still on the claim form, (unless you have recently seen a form), I haven't seen a form so can't comment. But I agree, if written like that, it would be an indicator.

That's why I asked current DWP workers about what is issued following the phone claim, to see if there is some sort of equivalent. For example, does the summary make any reference to the CB position?

As I said there is nothing given to the claimant except a statement and it does not reference CB.

Since the claim form either wants CB in payment or has been claimed - there is no option for it hasn't been claimed yes there is- what is the claim taker recording when they ask questions and discover no CB claim made and not in payment. I imagine something would be triggered at this point.

More questions are triggered, they ask you
Are you receiving CB Y/N?
If No:
Is anyone else receiving CB Y/N?
if No, It says something like "It would be in your interest to claim CB ASAP, we will send you a form for this" But the agents don't say this bit because they don't have the forms to send. However they may still say "it's in your interest to claim ASAP"
if Yes: Are they willing to transfer into your name? Y/N

But like I said, these exact questions are also part of the JSA claim, and they are to be seen as 'heads up' to the possibility of claiming CB, not that it is a prerequisite to getting IS.

Current DWP workers confirmed this to still be the case. Hence I wonder if there is some equivalent for telephone claims.

No there isn't. And someone having 100 questions fired at them rapidly over the phone, would not remember all the 'heads up' points (like CB) that may have made them curious through the call.