Plaintshirts.co.uk - Refusing refund!?!?

arcon5

bris wrote: »

I completely disagree here, the op declared himself a trade customer, the website couldn't be clearer and he is not entitled to a refund.
Court action would fail, the courts want to be fair to both not just consumers.

The fact of the matter is op purchased as a consumer. Doesn't matter what their website says. Op put a dash in the 'company name' box, this is not declaring himself as a business, yet they proceeded to accept the order.

In fact a lot of non B2B websites still state no returns on their website, which as we all know are unenforceable in B2C contracts.

terra_ferma

It looks to me like they are more than happy to sell to the public, while denying DSR rights.

This is why:

If you are viewing Hanes products for personal use, we strongly advise you purchase your goods from a local store where returns and refunds are more widely accepted.

That paragraph shows they are willing to sell to retail customers and therefore not a purely B2B trader. If they are happy to take their money they should comply with DSRs.

PS the many wholesale sites I deal with would not pull this trick, they have large minimum orders and don't sell individual items.

George_Michael

If you are viewing Hanes products for personal use

That paragraph shows they are willing to sell to retail customers

But they don't state "If you are buying Hanes products for personal use"
They could argue that whilst they allow retail customers to view products on their website, nowhere do they state that those same customers can then place an order without the need to state company details when ordering.

arcon5

But if the company is presenting its products available for viewing by anybody and everybody would the onus not be on them to
a) ensure they are clear about whom may or may not purchase their products
and
b) correctly verify orders are only placed by the target market they wish to serve

arcon5

terra_ferma wrote: »

It looks to me like they are more than happy to sell to the public, while denying DSR rights.

This is why:
That paragraph shows they are willing to sell to retail customers and therefore not a purely B2B trader. If they are happy to take their money they should comply with DSRs.

PS the many wholesale sites I deal with would not pull this trick, they have large minimum orders and don't sell individual items.

Yes, the only exception that comes to mind being if they allow drop shipping. In which case in my experience accounts are often manually approved, which I imagine they are verifying I am in fact a business customer based on the company name/details provided.

Although some wholesalers will allow small orders but it's usually very obvious when they are selling to business only customers.

bris

arcon5 wrote: »

But if the company is presenting its products available for viewing by anybody and everybody would the onus not be on them to
a) ensure they are clear about whom may or may not purchase their products
and
b) correctly verify orders are only placed by the target market they wish to serve

Again I disagree, when you tick a box on a website stating you are over 18 to view it, do they then ask for your birth certificate, no of course not. These boxes are taking on trust and honesty, the owners can't possibly assume everyone is lying and take weeks to process a sale, that would be ridiculous.
The OP is not a consumer in this instance as he represented himself as a trade customer and will be treated as such.

There are also many other cases similar to this regarding Dell's
business site. Many consumers have tried and failed to get consumer rights because they represented themselves as businesses to take advantage of the cheaper prices and different systems the business site offers, they failed and so will the OP.

terra_ferma

Most wholesale sites I use or know of pre-approve accounts, a few don't. None make any checks (e.g. requesting VAT number, or any other evidence).
In my opinion this site is dodgy, I've never seen a case where I'd be in doubt if a site is wholesale or not.
In their t&c, the trade bit is half way down.
It's a fact that customers don't read t&c in details, and they are counting on this to con them. If they genuinely didn't want to deal with retail customers they would make it very clear, like the many wholesale sites I'm familiar with.

I don't know where you stand legally OP, but they are definitely trying it on. Genuine wholesalers avoid retail buyers like the plague (because of low value sales, DRS rights etc), or have a separate system (log-in/website) for them.
While these people think they are clever, still sell retail but with small prints to say they are trade only. And advising against buying is not the same as categorically saying 'we don't sell to private customers'.

It would be interesting to see what trading standards would have to say about this case.

George_Michael

terra_ferma wrote: »

And advising against buying is not the same as categorically saying 'we don't sell to private customers'.

Like this you mean?

Please note, we supply Trade Only.

&

Guarantee
We supply Trade Only. Please order a sample before placing a bulk order to ensure the garments meet your requirements.

&

Returns Policy
Please note, we supply Trade Only and are a business to business supplier. Please order samples before placing a Bulk Order as Goods cannot be returned or refunded, unless incorrectly supplied.

terra_ferma

I missed the bit at the top of the returns page, but the overall argument still stands, they are very happy to attract retail buyers but not give them DSR rights.
All the wholesale sites I know have systems in place to either sell retail separately, or only sell to genuine trade customers.

The trade only bit is not shown on the home page, or the product pages, which seems rather deliberate to me.
Any retailer knows that people don't read t&c, particularly the new trend is people shopping using ipad/smartphone probably while watching TV, or not seeing all the information easily on the screen anyway.
As this fact is well known there is no excuse not to make sure people are informed.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
But my opinion, and anyone else's on this forum, is irrelevant. I hope OP approaches trading standards and finds out what they say.

DJFearRoss

Surely when the customer saw the prices which said, "Trade prices excluding VAT" then saw different quantities for different prices, then realised that without entering a company he couldn't complete the transaction, that something was amiss??

I personally wouldn't put on a website, "NO RETURNS ACCEPTED" on the front page, even if it was true. The fact, it says, "Trade Prices" on every page i personally think is enough to show the website is trade. www.plaintshirts.co.uk could possibly do more, but i've think they've said the important parts where they needed to.

If you are viewing Hanes products for personal use, we strongly advise you purchase your goods from a local store where returns and refunds are more widely accepted.

The above comment is actually probably a way to tell retail customers NOT to purchase from them. They must know customers keep trying it and are probably sick of it. It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove someone is operating as a genuine company as you DON'T have to have a registered name to operate as company. You can wake up one day and make a purchase as a company.i.e sole trader I believe.