The Most Important Document You Will Never Read....

wotsthat

RenovationMan wrote: »

You're flogging a dead horse. Graham has it in his head that you're a lord who has never been on his salary and so you don't know what it's like.

It does seem odd that Graham dismisses the arguments of people who he considers to be out of touch because they've done ok for themselves. You'd think there might be something to learn from someone who, if playing the 'who comes from the most humble background' game would have a pretty good chance of winning.

Life's about choices. There are plenty who make choices every day and either don't realise or don't want to realise. Very few people have no choices.

RenovationMan

shortchanged wrote: »

Interesting spiel from someone who constantly calls the whole bull bear argument stupid.

Having said that Renoman you certainly seem to be very anti bear and therefore cannot hide your true colors.

Are you happy to call yourself a bull now? :rotfl:

Clearly someone needs to read this: http://styleguide.yahoo.com/editing/punctuate-proficiently/quotation-marks

-Expressing irony

Quotation marks can also indicate irony, sarcasm, skepticism, or a nonstandard usage.

Examples
My date’s car 'accidentally' ran out of gas.
The editor suspected that Janet’s original reporting was a little too 'original,' and indeed the newspaper later discovered that Janet had invented several of her quotes.

and may then understand why I use 'quotation marks' when I type this:

'Bear'.

Bit of a fail there, shortchanged....



:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

shortchanged_2

RenovationMan wrote: »

Clearly someone needs to read this: http://styleguide.yahoo.com/editing/punctuate-proficiently/quotation-marks

"Expressing irony

Quotation marks can also indicate irony, sarcasm, skepticism, or a nonstandard usage.

Examples
My date’s car “accidentally” ran out of gas.
The editor suspected that Janet’s original reporting was a little too “original,” and indeed the newspaper later discovered that Janet had invented several of her quotes."

and may then understand why I use 'quotation marks' when I type this:

'Bear'.



:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You're not fooling anyone Renoman. :shhh:

RenovationMan

shortchanged wrote: »

You're not fooling anyone Renoman. :shhh:

You have a short memory! :rotfl:

RenovationMan wrote: »

One last question for shortchanged.

Have you 'given up' completely and will now avoid me on the forum and not participate in any discussions with me or indeed make any sly digs at me that could end up in debate/discussion.

Or is your 'bye' just confined to this particular discussion and the difficult questions you refuse to answer?

I hope it is the former because otherwise people might start suggesting that you lost a discussion and flounced out of it, then returned in later discussions to get revenge, desperately hoping that people had forgotten about your drubbing here.

Don't be that guy, shortchanged. Stick to your guns and put me on Ignore and show the forum that you refuse point blank to debate anymore with someone who 'grinds people down' and who is 'relentless' and a possible 'professional interrogator in real life'.

:rotfl:

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If I was in a better position, then I would probably do so, as it won't actually mount to much.

Can you list half a dozen things you could do to improve your position?

I bet you can - why don't you follow through on some of them.

RenovationMan

wotsthat wrote: »

Can you list half a dozen things you could do to improve your position?

I bet you can - why don't you follow through on some of them.

Nah, Graham can't improve his lot.



The notion of actually doing work and improving his productivity during work time, possibly getting a pay rise, escapes him. Or indeed, failing this, using the time he spend on MSE (40,000 posts and counting) to better himself, by perhaps taking an online course and improving his qualifications?

Nope, that's too hard. Better stick to moaning to strangers about his difficult circumstances. :rotfl:

kabayiri

wotsthat wrote: »

Can you list half a dozen things you could do to improve your position?

I bet you can - why don't you follow through on some of them.

I think we all can list these things.

I reckon we have gone off tangent, discussing a mythical person earning a mythical £30K.

There is no doubt a lot of people in society could divert some spending now into savings.

There isn't any evidence that they are doing this in sufficient quantity though is there? Any pension focus in the media is almost always about the public sector people having to pay more for their packages.

If people aren't saving enough what do we do? To find out where people here sit it might help to list basic options.

a) STICK - force people to put money away. It worked for Oz. It would be politically a difficult sell

b) get better value off private pension schemes. Dutch schemes were reviewed last year. They gave 50% better return. Are our pension providers skimming too much off the top?

c) make pensionable living cheaper. Should the state subsidise basic travel; basic accommodation, etc? It's easier to live off a state pension if your outgoings and needs are modest.

d) TAX - yep, thorny one. Should we all pay more to fund our growing retirement populace? This probably comes down to how much we value our elderly.

e), f) ... things I have forgotten.

Generali's original post is that we are facing a problem, and some tough calls need to be made. Arguing about a reference case to demonstrate that others can/cannot follow this example isn't really going to work is it? [Correction, it might work for the 30 or so people who read this forum]

wotsthat

kabayiri wrote: »

There isn't any evidence that they are doing this in sufficient quantity though is there? Any pension focus in the media is almost always about the public sector people having to pay more for their packages.

If people aren't saving enough what do we do? To find out where people here sit it might help to list basic options.

a) STICK - force people to put money away. It worked for Oz. It would be politically a difficult sell

b) get better value off private pension schemes. Dutch schemes were reviewed last year. They gave 50% better return. Are our pension providers skimming too much off the top?

c) make pensionable living cheaper. Should the state subsidise basic travel; basic accommodation, etc? It's easier to live off a state pension if your outgoings and needs are modest.

d) TAX - yep, thorny one. Should we all pay more to fund our growing retirement populace? This probably comes down to how much we value our elderly.

e), f) ... things I have forgotten.

Generali's original post is that we are facing a problem, and some tough calls need to be made. Arguing about a reference case to demonstrate that others can/cannot follow this example isn't really going to work is it? [Correction, it might work for the 30 or so people who read this forum]

You're right. There's no evidence that people are saving in sufficient quantity. Generali was right - this is the most important document that people will never read. It paints a grim picture in a more compelling way than any of the gloom mongers on here could do.

From my own selfish viewpoint I want more people to help fund their own retirements because if they don't then I'm going to have to help fund them from the provisions I've made for myself.

The problem isn't insurmountable but there's no political will to deal with a problem that's going to affect a different government years from now. The voting public certainly aren't going to be sympathetic to increased compulsion which is probably the way forward.

Graham_Devon

RenovationMan wrote: »

Nope, I remember full well that your 'back story' is that you work for the NHS. What riles me is that you spend all your time on here while getting paid by the taxpayer for supposedly working for the NHS.

You're one of the bad apples who give other, hard working, public sector workers a bad name.


Graham Devon after a hard day [STRIKE]at the office[/STRIKE] on the forum.

I've told you before, I'm on call as it were. Today I'm sitting at home doing a few bits and pieces. At 10pm tonight I'll be logged in updating systems while everyone is off the system.

Not everyone works 9-5. Indeed, I don't even have hours, rather a job to get done however I best see fit.

kabayiri

wotsthat wrote: »

...
The problem isn't insurmountable but there's no political will to deal with a problem that's going to affect a different government years from now. The voting public certainly aren't going to be sympathetic to increased compulsion which is probably the way forward.

The lack of political will is because the public can be alarmingly inconsistent when canvassed.

If you ask "Do you believe our elderly should be looked after" most people would say yes.

If you ask "Should you be forced to save more for your retirement" many of those same people will say No.

I'm convinced governments will continue to use sleight of hand techniques to eke more money out of pensioners with money, to try and reduce the burden of those pensioners without. It's already happening with the talk about means testing benefits to pensioners. Next step is to make people leverage their own assets to fund retirement I reckon.