Disabled Ebay Seller's Tax Credits Stopped - Advice Please!

UnderPressure

A very good friend of mine is an Ebay seller, she has 2 disabled children that she takes care of full time, she sells anywhere between 80 and 120 items per week, makes 2 trips a week to the wholesaler, picks, pack, lists, posts, communicates and everything else needed for Ebay all within 36 hours a week, AS WELL AS looking after 2 disabled children all on her own every day!

Sorry OP you are swinging the old lead and you have been found out, don't mean to sound harsh but whining about it and trying to pull the disability card every time anyone asks you a question just won't cut it! The "loophole" is being closed, there is nothing you can do about it time to move on to pastures new. I welcome these new changes, as someone who ran a flagging business for a number of years with no support from anyone it makes me sick when I see seller claiming to work 32 hours a week on EBay and selling nowt! Time to get real me thinks.

I wish you well with the overpayment issue, as has been suggested go and get some professional advice, I would not even bother trying to tell HMRC again that on a week you sell nothing you still work 32 hours, I think you have probably pushed your luck far enough already!

Magic_Fairy

UnderPressure wrote: »

A very good friend of mine is an Ebay seller, she has 2 disabled children that she takes care of full time, she sells anywhere between 80 and 120 items per week, makes 2 trips a week to the wholesaler, picks, pack, lists, posts, communicates and everything else needed for Ebay all within 36 hours a week, AS WELL AS looking after 2 disabled children all on her own every day!

Sorry OP you are swinging the old lead and you have been found out, don't mean to sound harsh but whining about it and trying to pull the disability card every time anyone asks you a question just won't cut it! The "loophole" is being closed, there is nothing you can do about it time to move on to pastures new. I welcome these new changes, as someone who ran a flagging business for a number of years with no support from anyone it makes me sick when I see seller claiming to work 32 hours a week on EBay and selling nowt! Time to get real me thinks.

I wish you well with the overpayment issue, as has been suggested go and get some professional advice, I would not even bother trying to tell HMRC again that on a week you sell nothing you still work 32 hours, I think you have probably pushed your luck far enough already!

Without wishing to sound rude, what your friend is able to sell in her circumstances has nothing to do with what I have been able to sell in my circumstances. You have just admitted that she works for 36 hours per week running her ebay shop. If she made a loss at the end of the tax year would that mean she had not spent those 36 hours working? NO!

My Tax Credit claim was originally made when it was called Disabled Person's Tax Credit and I received it because I am disabled and can't do the same work that a healthy person can. I am not playing the disability card - I AM DISABLED!

I have not been 'found out' as you put it because I haven't broken any rules or lied about my situation. I also didn't sell 'nowt' as you put it, I made a loss at the end of the tax year. That is not the same thing.

UnderPressure

You have said by your own admission some week you sell nothing, last week you sold nothing, so if you sold nothing last week how can you have possibly worked 32 hours? You do not sound rude and I understand you are anxious regarding this potential over payment, but come on now, just for a minute can you honestly put your hand on your heart and say you have worked 32 hours a week every week for the last 12 months?

Please do not treat people like fools, it is disrespectful and a slap in the face to the people who have been kind enough to offer you some advice. An awful lot can be achieved in 32 hours a week regardless of disability there is no way on this earth you have worked 32 hours when by your own admission you have not sold anything SOME WEEKS.

As far as "I" know (and I am the first to admit I am no expert!) the word you keep using "average" has nothing to do with it, the rule as far as I understand it is EVERY week you work 32 hours.

I really do not mean to be rude but there are a lot of very very hard working people out there with genuine businesses who are also under scrutiny right now all because this "loophole" has been exploited to the max by people after an easy life and an easy income, you expect us all to swallow it taking you 5 times longer than anyone else to write an ebay ad because you are disabled???? Makes no sense, sorry I agree with HMRC. If you are "that" disabled then you really should not be working and I do not think if you are "that" disabled anybody on this board would have any issue with you claiming ESA, you have mentioned a few times in your posts "would you prefer I claimed another benefit" well yes I would, if you are really that disabled that it takes you 5 times more time to do basic things then you are putting yourself through undue stress and should be on ESA.
BTW it does not matter when you started to claim you are now bound by the same rules as everyone else, what happened 3-10 years ago is of no importance HMRC are concerned with last years earning and this years possible earnings, 32 hours a week to only break even after 12 months you would not still be working this business if you did not have WTC would you?

Magic_Fairy

UnderPressure wrote: »

You have said by your own admission some week you sell nothing, last week you sold nothing, so if you sold nothing last week how can you have possibly worked 32 hours? You do not sound rude and I understand you are anxious regarding this potential over payment, but come on now, just for a minute can you honestly put your hand on your heart and say you have worked 32 hours a week every week for the last 12 months?

Please do not treat people like fools, it is disrespectful and a slap in the face to the people who have been kind enough to offer you some advice. An awful lot can be achieved in 32 hours a week regardless of disability there is no way on this earth you have worked 32 hours when by your own admission you have not sold anything SOME WEEKS.

As far as "I" know (and I am the first to admit I am no expert!) the word you keep using "average" has nothing to do with it, the rule as far as I understand it is EVERY week you work 32 hours.

I really do not mean to be rude but there are a lot of very very hard working people out there with genuine businesses who are also under scrutiny right now all because this "loophole" has been exploited to the max by people after an easy life and an easy income, you expect us all to swallow it taking you 5 times longer than anyone else to write an ebay ad because you are disabled???? Makes no sense, sorry I agree with HMRC. If you are "that" disabled then you really should not be working and I do not think if you are "that" disabled anybody on this board would have any issue with you claiming ESA, you have mentioned a few times in your posts "would you prefer I claimed another benefit" well yes I would, if you are really that disabled that it takes you 5 times more time to do basic things then you are putting yourself through undue stress and should be on ESA.
BTW it does not matter when you started to claim you are now bound by the same rules as everyone else, what happened 3-10 years ago is of no importance HMRC are concerned with last years earning and this years possible earnings, 32 hours a week to only break even after 12 months you would not still be working this business if you did not have WTC would you?

People seem to be confusing 'sales' with time spent working. If I buy stock, take pictures and put items in my ebay shop but nobody buys anything that week, does it mean I didn't work? Erm... no. I do not have an easy life or an easy income. I don't even have the luxury of a sink in my bathroom because I am still saving to have major repair work done. To be fair that is nobody else's problem but please don't say I have an easy life because I do not AT ALL! You say you would prefer me to claim another benefit but as long as I am not breaking any rules is it not up to me whether I try to work or not? I do have some pride left and I would hate to do nothing in return for my benefit. And yes I am bound by the same rules as everyone else, and the current rules are that Tax Credits are based on the number of hours worked and not on income. And it is based on the AVERAGE hours worked, they told me that themsleves and told me I could choose which months accounts to send them because they understood I would have periods of inactivity.

Spamfree_2

I'm not sure what people are getting themselves in a twist for over the OP. Over the course of 7 days, the working hours are only an average of 4.5 hours per day.
I commend the OP on not just sitting on her backside expecting to be claiming every disability benefit going, at least she is trying to do something!!!!!

UnderPressure

Yes I understand all of what you are saying and I understand your entitlement is based around hours worked and not income however my question still is on the weeks you sold nothing how could you possible accumulate 32 hours of work? What could you have possible done on those week to justify 32 hours of your time?

Also as said in my last post, if there were no WTC how could you possibly continue with what on the face of it seems now to be a failing business? If after 12 months you have only broke even then surely it is fair to say the only way you have survived the last 12 months is because of WTC? So if WTC was not there then what would you do?

I now you will now say well that is irrelevant because WTC is here and available but the point is the government is trying to make it less available for such circumstances.

I suppose the question is how can HMRC turn round and say your business is not viable, which by all accounts they have done, I do not know but the point is they have, my personal opinion is I agree with them that is irrelevant though I know.

If you go to appeal at the very least they will want answers to a lot of the questions that have been asked in this thread you nightmare is trying to prove the hours you claim to work, they seem so over estimated to me however I am not the one hearing the appeal am I..............

There has to be a bit of realism in all this and also the acceptance of the fact that on the face of it you are screwed for want of a better term, you will face this in any home based business you choose to engage in, quite rightly it is becoming harder and harder to do what you "think" is the right thing by trying to generate income, the fact is the cards are now weighted against you.

FOr me the best suggestion has already been mentioned, claim ESA and continue with your Ebay activities under the permitted work rule, I think you may be able to only work 16 hours and claim WTC as a disabled person so that could be another option, continuing to be adamant you are working 32 hours a week for basically nothing is not going to get you anywhere, especially considering by your own admission this is an established business that is not in its first 2 years of trading.

Magic_Fairy

Thank you for your comments UnderPressure.

I have things for sale in my shop, buy stock etc and prepare clothes/items/listings/photographs etc to upload but that doesn't mean I will get sales every week. I can be working and NOT get sales. I haven't always made a loss, only in the past tax year. However I do admit that my income was small in the past and I did need the support of Tax Credits as many other people on low incomes do.

I understand that the Government wants to make this benefit harder to claim, however until the new rules are implemented they have to base their decisions on the current rules for which I believe I met/meet the criteria.

I admit I struggle to do tasks that other people take for granted and that will make my hours look exaggerated. However I thought they were supposed to take my disability into account (after all that is the basis of my claim) and they don't appear to have done so.

I have no probem with being told I no longer qualify, or that perhaps I should claim a different benefit but I am upset that I DID work long hours last year, I haven't lied, I declared my income honestly and now I may have to pay back £6500 which I can't afford! If they thought I should be in receipt of another benefit it would have been better if they had told me within a few weeks of my renewal claim and not a year later!

soolin

Magic_Fairy wrote: »

Soolin, thank you for inviting me to the ebay board.

I am not sure how I could take photos of an item, upload them onto the computer, add them to Turbo Lister, then measure the item, describe it, fill out the listing page thingy, weigh the item, work out the postage costs etc in less than half an hour to an hour per item? Although I have good typing skills there are times when I have difficulty using the computer due to problems with my arm, shoulder and back and I also have problems getting up and down from a chair/bed to measure items and take the photos etc because of my physical problems. This was all supported by medical evidence that I submitted.

I can probably produce a listing from scratch with photos and measurements in around 15 mins max. I can shave a lot of time from that by using eBay templates for similar items, some of the more popular items for instance just need a new photo and a quick check of the measurements and I can do that in 5-10 mins.

Other things to consider though are whether you are not selling due to stars or feedback or policies. I can get an average sell through rate of around 85%, once a line stops working I move on. You should be able to do that if you are a business, I know nothing about your marketi in say vintage dresses, but I assume you do if that is whAt you sell so you shouldn't be buying stock without a fAir ideA of the end value. Yes I do sometimes cut my losses and sell at cost ( I never sell and lose money overAll though as I prefer to donate those goods to a charity).

Seriously though if you cannot make A profit in your chosen field, even a small one that gets you by, then you don't have a business. I could buy go out today and buy CDs from Tesco for £10 and then sell them on a market stall at £10 making a loss, but that is not a viable business and should not be treated as such for the purposes of WTC.

I do believe strongly in the welfare state and would defend it to the last, however, I do not support the view that 'any' business regardless of income and time spent should be deemed allowable for WTC.

Seriously, if you want help to run a business come and chat on the eBay board. There are many people there that have disabilities, although you will note they are never referred to, I just happen to have corresponded off board with some regulars.

However, for the purposes of WTC you may well have to find a real job to support some of the hours you need to be able to claim. If that is not possible with your disability then you should be looking not at WTCs but at other forms of support.

BigAunty

Magic_Fairy wrote: »

Is it fair for them to judge my PAST claim on proposals that haven't even been implemented yet though? At the time of my claim I should have been able to claim Tax Credits based upon the number of hours I worked. Proving the number of hours I worked is my problem, but they can't change the qualifying criteria until the changes have been implemented surely?

Apologies for not making this clearer in my previous post.

The Universal Credit system criteria is not being applied to current WTC claimants. All I meant to convey in my previous message is that the self employment conditionality will change significantly when UC is implemented. Tax credits will be scrapped then.

So while you are obviously needing to focus on your current battles with the HMRC, you should also look ahead to the new system as it will operate quite differently from now (forewarned is forearmed, etc).

UnderPressure

I had to go out for half an hour and could not get this thread out of my head! Look, OP, firstly let me say I did not really intend my comments to come across as poking at you, I have just read them back I can be a bit harsh sometimes without realising it so if any of my comments upset you please accept my apology, they were not intended that way

I think you probably realise in your heart that there really is no way of trying to justify 32 hours a week on your business, especially from this moment moving forward, so you need to decide firstly which way you are going to jump, you really need some professional advice about all this, the way I see it you have 2 options:

a/ appeal against the HMRC decision and be prepared to take it all the way to tribunal, this option is successful could cancel any potential over payment and re-instate your WTC. Biggest problem with this would be convincing them you have been working 32 hours a week, as you can see from this thread this is probably going to be an awful lot harder than it sounds.

b/ Appeal on the basis you want to be considered as working for only 16 hours only because you cannot prove to them you have been working 32 hours, this option would reduce any over payment significantly and because you are registered disabled should also re-instate your entitlement to WTC as disabled people can still claim with only 16 hours being worked.

for either of these options you NEED professional advice, CAB, welfare officer any of the charities out there, they will be able to tell you how to do both options efficiently and which one will be best for you.

c/ claim ESA and continue with Ebay under the permitted work rule, an excellent option moving forward but there still would be the issue of the overpayment to deal with.

Moving forward there are still ways you can continue doing what you have worked so hard to build up so it does not need to be a complete disaster.

The best thing to do is go and get that professional advice, you may as well appeal in 1 form or another, you have nothing to lose because at this moment you have already lost the WTC so appealing will do no harm but potentially could sort the whole problem out, but please be reasonable about your hours, I have a feeling you will get a lot further if you just suck it up and go for the 16 hours rather than the 32, you know in your heart you were doing the 32 hours however there is no way you can prove this and what your business has produced over the last 12 months activity wise only makes it harder to convince them.

I do wish you the best of luck with it all but as said either way this is not something you can deal with on your own go and get talking to that professional